Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
| PentecostalTheology.com
For public distribution: From C. Peter Wagner (This is a personal statement only—not representing any church or organization)
I Like Donald Trump
Although I’ve never done this before, I am ready to come clean on this year’s politics. In my entire life I’ve never witnessed such an interesting presidential campaign. I favor Donald Trump for our next president. Yes, I’m an evangelical Christian and I was encouraged to see that in the South Carolina primary, Trump took the evangelical vote. So I’m not the only one.
Why?
We are dealing with the office of the President of the USA. O.K., what about the USA? I have logged 85 years as a citizen of the USA, and I have never been so discouraged about our nation. We are in dire straights. I believe that much of America’s malady has been caused over the years by the establishment politics of both parties in Washington, DC. How do we get out of this quagmire? By electing another establishment politician who will deliver business as usual? Or by trying someone whose life has been business before politics, who finances his own campaign, and who is beholden to no one in Washington? That would be Donald Trump.
An Evangelical Christian?
Some say that Trump is not an evangelical Christian, so how could an evangelical like me vote for him? I wish he didn’t have a history of multiple marriages. I wish he knew the Bible better. I wish he would go to church more regularly. I wish he would tone down his profanity. But none of those qualities would make or break a president who could make or break our country. Many evangelicals voted for Sunday School teacher Jimmy Carter because of his spirituality, only to end up with a disaster. God is not limited to using Christians to accomplish His purposes. We need only to recall Cyrus, the idolatrous king of Persia, whom God used to help get His people back to Jerusalem.
Let me point out that influence is related to spirituality in the Religion Mountain, but this is not true in any of the other six mountains that are the molders of culture. The chief producer if influence in the six non-Religion mountains is not spirituality but success. The most successful people are the most influential. Success? In the Business Mountain and the Media Mountain Trump has accumulated 8-10 billion dollars. He knows how to influence. I want to vote for a commander-in-chief, not a bishop-in-chief.
Conclusion
In conclusion, I believe that Trump has the qualities necessary to “make America great once again,” as he would say. Voting for him is a calculated risk, but at this junction of history it is a risk well-taken. Nothing will change if we vote for the status quo. Let’s step out. Let’s put someone different in the White House.
Vernon Soles
Vernon Soles liked this on Facebook.
Robert Cox
Why would any Christian vote for this strip club, casino owning, vulgar mouthed, wife changing, adultery bragging heathen when you could vote for a real Christian?
And yes, I’m willing to say that anyone who hasn’t asked God for forgiveness is NOT a Christian.
Varnel Watson
HOW MANY CHRISTIANS HAVE ALREADY VOTED FOR #TRUMP? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/how-many-christians-have-already-voted-for-trump/
David Rollings
Wagner is wrong when he says politics is about success the truth is it is about justice. His reasoning is most odd, I have looked up to Wagner for years but on this occasion he is wrong.
Varnel Watson
Wagner is NAR. NAR like many Calvinists is post-mil. Trump does well to the kingdom-now take-it-all-now all theology David Lewayne Porter
David Lewayne Porter
Yawn
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne Do you align with the 7 mountains of prophecy? https://www.facebook.com/evangelistandrewgreen/videos/1006527399429907/
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne Is this the true reason you’re not voting for Trump any longer anfter he proposed rewriting GOP pro-life platform, saying transgender folks should be able to use bathrooms of their choice and it’s just good for business ??? http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/podcast/donald-trump-has-redefined-the-meaning-of-christian-and-conservative.html
Stan Wayne
I don’t even know what the 7 mountains of prophecy are – sounds weird. Mountains are mountains of Rome. I think.
Varnel Watson
David M. Hinsen Are still support Trump after his transgeder turn?
Stan Wayne
I voted Trump. I like Trump even if agreeing 80 or 90 percent – he is changing the paradigm of the conservative coalition bringing in Union laborers
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne So you agree with this transgeder turn too? #strange
Stan Wayne
I don’t agree with his transgender bathroom thing but it is .03 of population and ridiculous – has no effect
David M. Hinsen
I’m very disappointed in his comments. I’m waiting to see who the nominee will be.
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne The Seven Mountain Mandate is a general Christian politics dominionism which New Apostolic Reformation borrowed from OSAS and now is being promoted by many across the charismatic chart http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-seven-mountain-mandate-nar/
Stan Wayne
That is too ridiculous to even bother with
Varnel Watson
Do you mean the transgender issue?
Stan Wayne
No the 7 mountains, not
Varnel Watson
Most of pastors who prayed for / supported Trump came from the dominionism circles with appetite for political presence in the government
Stan Wayne
Transgender also pretty ridiculous – trump likely wants to stop sounding like a hater – maybe he wants a third bathroom if pushed but he doesn’t think through well –
He shoots then thinks –
But he still hits more bullseyes than most
Varnel Watson
Emotional maybe. But political, hardly!
Stan Wayne
Not a politician – but he is the best we have to crash the system
Varnel Watson
Crashing the system may pout an end to the country 🙂
Stan Wayne
I think this is good
Stan Wayne
I am pro Trump – dominionism is stupid and closer to Cruz
Robert Cox
Can you prove Ted Cruz is a dominionist or are you just bearing false witness without evidence?
Robert Cox
Like lying trump
Stan Wayne
What a crazy question –
Robert Cox
Asking you to prove what you say is crazy?
Ok. Never mind.
You’re a typical Trumpian.
Varnel Watson
The reference on dominionists was that they prayed for Trump. The news about his crossgender turn comes from FoxNews #veryVERYstrange
Stan Wayne
Does anyone seriously doubt Rafael Cruz is a dominionist and that Ted though officially Southern Baptist is Pentecostal and in agreement with Rafael?
Varnel Watson
I am reading this by @James Hollomon but can anyone confirm it as true: Ted Cruz is a member of a strict fundamentalist branch of the Southern Baptist Church with deep roots in Dominionist theology. His father is a noted Dominionist. Here are a sampling of references to read more about his desire to set up a national and eventually world-wide Christian theocratic government.
Ted Cruz, Dominionism and Jesus
The Left Must Accept that Ted Cruz is the Dominionist Messiah
CHILLING Exposé: Ted Cruz & his Dominionist Roots
Born From The Heart of the Dominionist Christian Right
Crazy Ted Cruz
Rafael Cruz Declares Son Ted Cruz ‘The Anointed One’ https://www.quora.com/Is-Ted-Cruz-a-dominionist
Robert Cox
I’d like to see hard evidence of it, not just someone’s opinion.
I’ve met Cruz. Met his pastor. Prayed with him.
There is zero evidence of him being a dominionist.
Furthermore, I’ve studied that doctrine a bit and I find it misdirected but harmless. If Christians want to run for public office and institute changes, then that’s a good thing.
I also think that any Christian that would vote for that pig trump is denying the faith.
Feel free to boot me off this page.
Varnel Watson
Robert Cox That’s true! Stan Wayne What’s funny to me is that a few min. ago you did not know about the 7 mountains and now you’re quoting Rafael 😉 So Trumpian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLMNkzvae4M
Stan Wayne
I agree dominionism is harmless mainly because they don’t dominate (dominionate ;))
I have zero interest in dominionism and don’t follow their latest lingo but I have seen them from afar for 40 years – Rushdoony, NAR etc – all crazy – NAR basically Manifested Sons craziness
Stan Wayne
To Jeb Rubio Carlie etc Trump has caused grief shock consternation unbelief anger denial and all manner of emotional disturbance – but it might just be the kick in the pants the country needs – I think of Trump as a Hail Mary pass
Robert Cox
Totally unbiblical to elect ungodly leaders.
Many Christians think that God is using trump.
Right! Bc God supports the ungodly.
Varnel Watson
Agreed! Several month ago AskDrBrown already stated in two broadcasts how unbliblical both Turmp and Cruz are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqiwUnxmfmc
Stan Wayne
That is crazy – all men are ungodly – all Presidents have been ungodly – very few have been saved –
But some are more favorable to Christianity than others –
We want people who favor Christianity – Carter though godly did not favor Christianity – very ironic
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne You’re fine voting for Trump, as long as you dong mind your vote going for ex-democrat, strip joint owner, 2-times divorcee, kingdom-now dominionist and last but not list transgender supporter http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-serious-rebuke-to-evangelicals-supporting-trump/
Stan Wayne
This is not a theocracy – we need competent pro Christian leaders but very unlikely to find a very spiritual and competent person. Ben Carson comes close but competence issues defeat him
Stan Wayne
Troy – some is true some is false some is neither true nor false in what you say about Trump – I think he will change immigration demographics trade military – can’t get everything I want
Varnel Watson
I cannot but agree with you about Carter. True and timely assessment indeed. I am just afraid we are making a worse mistake now
Stan Wayne
I think it is a Hail Mary pass – no on else can catch the ball but he might miss it
Varnel Watson
Donald Trump will say anything to anyone to make a deal with them. That he doesn’t mean what he says – even when his listeners think he is “speaking his mind” – is clear enough from his actions. Trump is just like all the rest who are in the race for the Presidency with some major exceptions. He took no money from the GOP. Yet! And b/c he lacks that exact dependency on GOP, he’d never be allowed to go far. No matter how many Christians have already voted for him… http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/how-many-christians-have-already-voted-for-trump/
Stan Wayne
We have heard these things since June – so far he has proved all detractors wrong
Varnel Watson
We have also heard Trump only repeating the same things many other people said. But there’s a bigger problem at hand here: It is the evangelical church establishment that is hit much worse by Trump’s ostensibly chaotic babbling. And the evangelical ecclesiastical establishment is one of his targets.
I don’t think any discerning Christian could vote for the man in good conscience. Therefore it is of no surprise that Wagner and the NAR bunch are the “christians” who are backing Trump out there http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/peter-wagner-renews-endorsement-of-trump/
Billy Monroe Poff
Proceed away my friend…I have grown very weary of trying to get people to understand why a Christian should not vote for him and I have just come to the conclusion that people already have their minds made up and will refuse to see any different so I have decided not to debate it any further as I do not have the time or patience to continue to invest in this type of debate. But you can feel free to quote anything I say… But I may or may not respond to the posts because if I do it generally involves me getting sucked into an endless dabate in which I do not have time for.. Blessings to all…..
Ray Fulcher
Ray Fulcher liked this on Facebook.
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne Billy Monroe Poff I think it was Wolfgang Vondey who said in this group that discussing politics or Trump is no theology.
The current US elections conundrum represents the clash of two Christian theologies. We have the liberal post-millennial believers who expect to fix everything on Earth, prepare the world, take over kingdoms before Christ’s return. Kingdom-now theology, liberal liberation and Christian revelutionism, Christian reconstructionism and so on. The names are many but the spirit behind them is all and the same. Many tongue-speaking charismatics, Lutherans, Anglicans and even Baptists fall in that category as well. Ernest Leon Not to mention Regent’s renewalist 700 Club who by far is surpassed their Kingdom-now strife for political influence only by Wagner, New Apostolic Reformation and their 7 Mountains of Influence creeping among many Charistmatics today. Exactly these Christians are mesmerized by Trump making America great again, and please note here, without the physical presence of Christ. They call this optimistic theology – there’s no help there!
Then you have the conservative Pentecostal, pre-millennial Christ expecting believers who understand that Trump or no Trump, it will take Christ and Christ alone to fix the mess this world is in today. And since they are called pessimistic in their eschatology, to them I submit the following encouraging Bible-based and sound theology words of wisdom: http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/pre-tribulation-rapture/
Wolfgang Vondey
Troy, that would be a strange thing to say (what you say about me). I don’t comment on politics on Facebook, ever. Better check your sources.
Stan Wayne
What about people who just want less Muslims and less illegal aliens
Varnel Watson
They should stop using Arabic numbers in any capacity in their lives and go back to the lands of their forefathers but Trump isn’t their answer!
Stan Wayne
Troy that be funny and dumb
Varnel Watson
Well, you and I both know not much choice out there for Christians
Stan Wayne
It is not a Christian election
Varnel Watson
James Hollomon Why doesn’t Hillary Clinton press the basic fact that she has collected 2.7M more votes than Bernie Sanders AND double more than Trump all together? https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-Hillary-Clinton-press-the-basic-fact-that-she-has-collected-2-7M-more-votes-than-Bernie-Sanders-10-4M-vs-7-7M/answer/James-Hollomon?srid=iwys&share=be53cc5f
Stan Wayne
She didn’t have 17 candidates to run against
Stan Wayne
Who is Mexico most against? Who is Europe, China, Japan worried about? Who do the Muslims hate the most? That is who I am for.
Varnel Watson
Henry Volk https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-projected-to-win-at-least-three-democratic-primaries/2016/04/26/73b2076c-0b2d-11e6-8ab8-9ad050f76d7d_story.html?wpisrc=nl_az_most
Johnathan Alvarado
I’m a day late with my comments but, suffice it to say that I am profoundly disappointed by C. Peter Wagner’s support of Trump and his contrived rationale to do so.
Stan Wayne
Ad hominem – desperate – futile – undemocratic – diehard
Varnel Watson
Johnathan Alvarado Good comment, brother. There is a major confusion in the Kingdom-now camp as related to American (and obviously Brazilian William DeArteaga) politics today. Wagner’s support for Trump, instead of supporting the true post millennial dominionism candidate Cruz is confusing. At the same time, poll shows Bernie Sanders profoundly changing how millennials think about politics Henry Volk Thus, basically securing Clinton’s win in November Stan Wayne https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/25/bernie-sanders-is-profoundly-changing-how-millennials-think-about-politics-poll-shows/?wpisrc=nl_az_most
Johnathan Alvarado
Just to be clear, my disdain for Wagner’s supportive comments about Trump should not be construed as lending my support to Cruz.
Stan Wayne
Trump hasn’t begun on Hillary – Trump likely will get many “blue” states with labor support whereas Hillary is limited to elitist movie stars college students and most blacks
Johnathan Alvarado
Trump CANNOT win a general election without African Americans, Hispanics, and women. For the record, he’s performing HORRIBLY in the polls with all three of these groups.
Stan Wayne
Not correct
Johnathan Alvarado
Stan Wayne oh well. When facts don’t matter, I exit the conversation. Have a great day!
Stan Wayne
Trump was highest among Latinos in New York republican primary – higher than Latino Cruz – he has defied every doomsday prediction like – can’t get over 50% etc
Johnathan Alvarado
Stan Wayne First of all, I couched my comments in the context of a General Election, not a very limited, state, Republican primary. He may have bested Cruz within that very small populous of Latin Republicans in New York but the majority of Latinos (of which I am one) are NOT Republican. Secondly, New York is his home state. Even Kasich won his home state. That is no indication of electability, it’s more like a false positive. Finally, it is indisputable that Trump has an 83% disapproval rate among Hispanics nationwide, a 74% disapproval rate among African Americans, and a 70% disapproval rate among women. This is not a ‘doomsday prediction’. These are facts…
Robert Cox
Stan Wayne
Many of the Hispanics that oppose Trump are illegal and can’t vote – surveys don’t show who is eligible or likely to vote – good luck but I think he had a good chance because blue dog democrats and anti immigration blacks like him
Stan Wayne
Ad hominem attacks are ad hominem attacks – I would like to see the attackers build a skyscraper in Manhattan
Varnel Watson
Johnathan Alvarado You are correct. SC and AL are all for Clinton in this coming November election just like they were with Obama http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-serious-rebuke-to-evangelicals-supporting-trump/
Stan Wayne
Wishful thinking has got you and false predictions nowhere with Cruz so far
Robert Cox
Stan Wayne spot me a few million and I’d get it done…..
Stan Wayne
I love it – you guys DIE HARD but you are dying a way – 😉
Johnathan Alvarado
Stan Wayne, the amazing aspect of the hubris of Trump and many of his supporters is to presume to speak for groups of which they have no affiliation and to which they do not belong. It stands to REASON that the data on Trump disapproval amongst Hispanics reflects the whole. But that means that 83% of the whole (including those eligible to vote) oppose Trump. Unless you are alleging that the only Hispanics that oppose him are illegal…? Further, you have no statistics to support what Democrats ‘like’ him and you certainly do not have ANY stats on the minuscule populous of African Americans who support Trump. For the record, the vast majority of African Americans are not anti-immigration. People who have been forced to immigrate usually have a different perspective on immigration than those who voluntarily relocated…
Stan Wayne
You mean you didn’t speak for blacks and women? Ad hominem – wishful emotional thinking –
There will be a Wall and Mexico will pay 😉
Johnathan Alvarado
Stan Wayne At least I’m thinking. And for the record, I’m Afro-Hispanic. As for wishful and emotional, you may try to disparage my logical, well thought-through arguments against your ill prepared candidate but the soundness of my reason rings through. Even if the ignorant do not understand it.
Stan Wayne
Ad hominem emotional desperate sad
Johnathan Alvarado
Stan Wayne are you sure you are not Marco Rubio using a pseudonym? You certainly repeat the same thing over and over. Just thoughtless attacks against reasoned argument. Now I will return to my original resolution, not to engage those who have nothing more to contribute than condescend and insults.
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne I’ve always appreciate your comments b/c you address the issue and not the person. I am however interested in the juxtaposing of two theological systems in the current USA elections. After examining them fully, however, Sander’s “Christian” socialism, Cruz’spost millennial dominionism and Wagner’s NAR/Kingdom-now support for Trump are ALL pointing to Regent’s 700-Club-like Kingdom-now theology. What;s wrong with this theological picture in America’s political life today? William DeArteaga rightfully gives the answer with the Spiritual Decline and Fall of the Republican Party http://anglicalpentecostal.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-spiritual-decline-and-fall-of.html?_sm_au_=iMVPDSMVn7JzJHVQ and The rise of American authoritarianism http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-rise-of-american-authoritarianism-ourcog/
Stan Wayne
Sanders would be secular Jewish socialism. NAR support for Trump is irrelevant – they are a tiny force – there is a anti NAR Pentecostal or evangelical church in every village town city and very few NAR except in magazines and tv – there is no spiritual decline in Republican Party cuz it was never spiritual – even in its abolitionist days
Vlad Stepanov
Rubio endorses Trump? Once again, it’s been proven that what happens on the stage is just a show and sides always change.
Varnel Watson
Wolfgang Vondey My comment was about the theological significance of eschatological doctrine within the processes and dynamics of current US elections, as discussed prior in this article here: http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-do-the-presidential-candidates-believe-about-god/
I have observed a certain theological value projected to a set of governmental systems within those dynamics. This is inevitably done within the global context of eschatological reality; much like supporters of Islamic Jihad see themselves as “fulfillers of prophetical eschatology.” In this sense, political realities are being reshaped within the scope of theological sentiments, which are not necessarily dogmatic values, objects or realities. This process is especially prominent within the eschatological scope of political theology in the Western world today. Just a recent example is the visit of president Obama in the EU addressing UK membership within its current political reforms there.
Bonhoeffer wrote a lot about this dependency within political theology and its social concern, but one thought in particular could be cited here. We cannot do theology or live holiness without a community. Such individualistic dogmatism is sectarian and cultic at best to the extent of excluding even the supremacy of God Himself. It happened in Hitler’s Germany and it has happened in many other historical cases. History has proven to us time and time again how individualistic theology fails every time!
So yes, we can attempt to refrain from commenting political processes or ignoring their theological value, but this does not mean that the active political systems will stop reshaping our own theological thought even if we believe or say it does not. Theology of avoidance is a dangerous path to take and I pray and hope our Pentecostal Theology remains involved in the social concern of the whole globally community and not only within the sacred boundaries of academia.
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/canshould-pentecostal-theology-be-scholastically-defined/
Nelson Banuchi
“Many evangelicals voted for Sunday School teacher Jimmy Carter because of his spirituality, only to end up with a disaster. God is not limited to using Christians to accomplish His purposes.”
So, we should vote for another “disaster”?
And, we know God is able to use Christians, even those who merely profess it for purposes of obtaining a desired object; but is either one a good reason to vote for Trump?
“Voting for him is a calculated risk.”
That’s an understatement. One can also argue that the status quo that keeps things, more or less, on an even keel is better than the risk of blowing up the whole thing.
Don’t get me wrong. The choices we have for POTUS are not between the lesser of two evils, for both nominees are equally bad. That’s why, come voting time, I’m writing my name onto the ballot that way if either one should blow things up, I can rightly criticize by starting with, “See, I told you so.”
Nelson Banuchi
“Many evangelicals voted for Sunday School teacher Jimmy Carter because of his spirituality, only to end up with a disaster. God is not limited to using Christians to accomplish His purposes.”
So, we should vote for another “disaster”?
And, we know God is able to use Christians, even those who merely profess it for purposes of obtaining a desired object; but is either one a good reason to vote for Trump?
“Voting for him is a calculated risk.”
That’s an understatement. One can also argue that the status quo that keeps things, more or less, on an even keel is better than the risk of blowing up the whole thing.
Don’t get me wrong. The choices we have for POTUS are not between the lesser of two evils, for both nominees are equally bad. That’s why, come voting time, I’m writing my name onto the ballot. That way if either one should blow things up, I can rightly criticize by starting with, “See, I told you so.”
Charles Page
A vote for Donald Trump is a a demonstration against the mass manipulation of the American Mass Media. Vote for Trump is a vote against Matt Liar and NBC!
Charles Page
Oh, I’m sorry I misspelled Matt’s last name!