Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
| PentecostalTheology.com
The Stunning 400 Year Thanksgiving Cycle
Anonymous
William DeArteaga Link Hudson Brett Dobbs Philip Williams Paul King
What They (Likely) Did Have at the First Thanksgiving
Venison
Fowl (geese and duck)
Corn
Nuts (walnuts, chestnuts, beechnuts)
Shellfish
So venison was a major ingredient, as well as fowl, but that likely included geese and ducks. Turkeys are a possibility, but were not a common food in that time. https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/thanksgiving-a-narrative/
Anonymous
Philip Williams No one disputes the fact that America has a unique history during which it became,
and continues to be a preeminent feature in global affairs. The recent war in Iraq is but
one example. In a quarter of a millennium it has become a nation unlike any other
nation in the history of the world. In some respects, it rivals nations with much longer
histories. Yet the Bible is remarkably silent when speaking about the role of America in
Bible prophecy. Dr. Tim LaHaye writes, “One of the hardest things for American
prophecy students to accept is that the United States is not clearly mentioned in Bible
prophecy, yet our nation is the only superpower in the world today.”
IS AMERICA REFERENCED IN EZEKIEL 38?
These two chapters refer to the Battle of Gog and Magog and speak of their invasion
of Israel. Ezekiel says this will occur “in the latter years” (38:8) and “in the last days”
(38:16). The invasion involves a coalition headed by “Gog of the land of Magog, the
prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal” (38:2). Magog has been identified as ancient
terminology for the area including modern day Russia, The Ukraine, and Kazakhstan.2
Ezekiel further identifies Magog as coming from “the remote parts of the north” (38:6).
Gog will lead the invasion of Israel, but Ezekiel 38:5,6 says that other nations will
join with him. Persia (Iran), Ethiopia or Cush (Sudan), Put (Libya), Gomer and Bethtogarmah (Turkey).3
All the allies of Magog are reasonably well identified and they are
all presently Muslim. Interestingly, such an alignment of nations is already configured
on the world scene in our own day.
I believe the invasion will most likely take place before the tribulation officially
http://www.pre-trib.org 2
begins, but after the rapture.4
Such a view would help to explain a vacuum on the world
political scene at the beginning of the tribulations left by the removal of the influence of
Russia and her Muslim allies, and possibly even the United States due to the conflict.
This would then prepare the way for the Revived Roman Empire (Western Europe) and
the Antichrist to sign the covenant with Israel (Daniel 9:2427).
Perhaps the strongest case for America in Bible prophecy can be made from a
statement found in Ezekiel 38:13.
“Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages, will
say to you, ‘Have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your
company to seize plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle
and goods, to capture great spoil?’” (Ezekiel 38:13)
It is argued that “the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages,” refers to the colonies of
Western Europe and the nations that have subsequently arisen from them. This would
include North America and the United States. Thus, the response to the invasion of
Magog into Israel from Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and its villages
will be one of nonintervention. They will simply say, “Have you come to capture spoil?”
Who are Sheba and Dedan? “Sheba and Dedan are not difficult to identify. They
are located in the modern country of Saudi Arabia.”5
Sheba and Dedan are said to be in
alignment with “the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages.”
The identity of “the merchants of Tarshish, with all its villages,” is the key phase for
those who believe this to be a reference to America. What are the arguments for this
interpretation?
First, merchants of Tarshish refer to the Phoenician maritime and trading community
located in Spain during the general time of King Solomon, 3,000 years ago. Second,
the merchants of Tarshish, during the last 500 years, developed into the modern
mercantile nations of Western Europe like Spain, Holland, and Britain. Third, the
phrase “with all its villages” or the variant rendering “with all its young lions,” would be a
reference to its trans-Atlantic colonies, which would include America. Thus, it is
reasoned, because America is the most dominant of these Western nations, this must
be a reference to America.
This view is strongly espoused by Steuart McBirnie, who concluded:
In the light of such conclusive scholarship, coming to light most
significantly at this time when the nations indicated by Ezekiel to be involved
in a great Middle Eastern war, we can now say with definite assurance that
the merchants of Tarshish and “the young lions (colonies) thereof” must
include the Western nations of Europe and the Americans, particularly the
United States.6
David Allen Lewis agrees:
So the young lions of Tarshish would definitely refer to the North American
Anonymous
Troy Day actually America is Israel’s own land prophesied in Ezekiel. In that book you see the spiritual picture of the church in America just as our forefathers saw the church in America.
Anonymous
Philip Williams America is NOT Israel Kyle Williams Duane L Burgess
Anonymous
Troy Day your current Israel is about to disappear. You will be stuck with the Kingdom of God in America.
Anonymous
Philip Williams Israel is about to disappear? you believe this Nelson Banuchi Neil Steven Lawrence Link Hudson Duane L Burgess
Anonymous
Troy Day if wider war breaks out for sure!
Anonymous
Troy Day Philip Williams No, not at all. And there is no such thing as a “Kingdom of God” in America (unless one is an American Nationalist or white supremacist), nor was America prophesied in Ezekiel. America will fall down just like all the other kingdoms in the past who thought they were a “chosen nation” or something to that effect. There is only one chosen nation and that is Israel, of whom God is not yet done with: “all Israel [as a nation] will be saved.”
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi tell me how that nation views Jesus Christ. Did you know that they have shifted from Christian tourism to non-Christian woke tourism as the case of the festival attacked by Hamas? Did you know that the biggest news from Israel in the first week of October was Haredi Jews spitting at Christians carrying a cross?
Anonymous
Philip Williams I saw what looked to me like a some sort of Hindu or Buddhist statue in that fiesta before the Hamas attack on a video (but I couldn’t quite make it out.
In any case, God is going to keep to His promise to Israel. He promised Israel, in so many words, “I’ll never leave you nor forsake you,” before He promised it to the Jewish disciples (and properly having it extended to Gentiles).
God’s calling and gifts to Israel as a nation are irrevocable and Gd has sworn on His own life, so to speak, that He will gather the nation and restore it in a manner more glorious than ever (Romans 11:26-32; Ezekiel 11:16-20). America is not the “new Israel” nor does the Church replace Israel and the promises in the OT to Israel still stand.
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi Hindu or Buddhist statue in that fiesta before the Hamas?
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi you have turned from worshipping Jesus to worshipping a Christ despising people and nation. I suppose you can also explain that to Jesus.
Anonymous
Philip Williams ??? yes? Nelson Banuchi Neil Steven Lawrence
Anonymous
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzSdp59Stu3/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Anonymous
Philip Williams this is not Nelson Banuchi nor Peter Vandever
Anonymous
There is a one thousand ship flotilla of humanitarian aid headed right now from Turkey to Gaza. What will Israel do? What will America do? What will the rest of the world and nations in the Middle East do?
Anonymous
Troy Day It was in a video taken from that Jewish music festival right before the attack. I couldn’t make it out but it looked like a Hindu or Buddha thing>
Anonymous
Philip Williams This is one problem with Trump supporters… they’re judgmental without warrant merely because they are against Trump and for the Democratic ideals of the American Republic (as though Jesus was an American citizen… up from the border?).
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi what is the secret proof Philip Williams is still hiding
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi I don’t know what any of that has to do with the Kingdom of God.
Anonymous
Philip Williams and I don’t know why you got judgmental…
Anonymous
Nelson Banuchi make righteous judgments.
Anonymous
Philip Williams What righteous judgment? That America is Israel? That God is not going to fulfill His clear promises to Israel as a nation but, rather, is going to make America –– so much more righteous than Israel –– the… what?… New Israel?
(It seems to me that only white supremacists think that).
Are you suggesting that you have the correct interpretation on some verses in the prophetic books that are not clear to us today and which Christians down through its history have had differing interpretations? Oh, but you have the right interpretation because you’re so righteous, so righteous that you have the divine authority to judge the moral character of another Christian brother who made a statement regarding something that really has no connection to morality but only with Biblical interpretation.
Anonymous
America is NOT Israel !!! Neil Steven Lawrence Peter Vandever Duane L Burgess Brett Dobbs hence calvinistic eschatology is a BIG fail Kyle Williams Link Hudson Ken Van Horn John Mushenhouse Roger Lewis
Anonymous
Troy Day what? What Calvinist do you know that says that America is Israel?
Anonymous
Troy Day America is not Israel. Jesus is.
Anonymous
Kyle Williams The Calvinist Roots of American Social Order: Calvin, Witherspoon, and Madison. Witherspoon and Madison’s Calvinist theology and political philosophy imparted a firm belief that self-interest could be harnessed, ambition checked, and power balanced within government so that liberty and the common good were made secure.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs Duane L Burgess In 2007, John MacArthur delivered “Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist is a Premillennialist” unlike Philip Williams
Anonymous
Troy Day and that means they thought America was Israel?
Anonymous
Kyle Williams In 2007, John MacArthur delivered “Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist is a Premillennialist”
Anonymous
Troy Day well I think you’d be surprised then to find out that Pre-Millenalism is a minority veiw within reformed circles. And dispensationalism (Rapture eschatology) is wholly inconsistent with Reformed theology.
Anonymous
Kyle Williams The futurist pre-mil place of Israel in prophecy has had a long history among amillennial Calvinists, something MacArthur should know. Theodore Beza (1519–1605), John Calvin’s successor in Geneva, taught, according to English theologian Thomas Brightman, that the world would “be restored from death to life again, at the time when the Jews should also come, and be called to the profession of the Gospel.” Martin Bucer (1491–1551), the reformer of Strasbourg and perhaps the continental Reformer who had the most direct influence on English Puritanism, wrote in a 1568 commentary on Romans that Paul prophesied a future conversion of the Jewish people.
Anonymous
Troy Day because the Bible says there will be mass conversion of the Jewish people to Christ once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Anonymous
Kyle Williams been to enough calvinator forums NOT to be surprised by any heresy I hear or read there BUT as to the minority you are wrong of course You are wrong again because post-mil is NOT calvinist teaching – Augustine was straight 110% a-mil and so a modern day hyper calvinators like you – I can prove it in 2-3 questions honestly answered by you FORMALLLY however you would be surprised how many calvinators follow GTY on Why Every Calvinist Should Be a Premillennialist https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/90-336/why-every-calvinist-should-be-a-premillennialist-part-3
Anonymous
Troy Day John MacArthur, while a solid brother, is not representative of the majority position within the Reformed camp. If you were actually present in as many “calvinator” forums as you claim, you would know this…
Anonymous
Kyle Williams Not all the Jews were blind; some of them recognized Christ. But the fullness of the Gentiles comes in among those who have been called according to the plan which includes Israel ~Augustine of Hippo on Romans 11:26
Anonymous
Troy Day right. Now read Agustine on Romans 9:6.
Anonymous
Troy Day
That’s a strange replacement theology!
A sign of very insular thinking.
Similar to the white supremacists in South Africa and the  Rastas who call all white people: Babylon. 
Oh, and don’t forget about the Nazis, who called their rise to power the third, Reich (the Third Reign) they would rule for 1000 years.
Now where have I heard that before? (Jesus Millennial Reign maybe??) — the devil is not very creative. 
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence yes Nelson Banuchi pointed this out
Been trying to tell Kyle Williams Philip Williams
Anonymous
Kyle Williams I did before I read him on Romans 11:26 and makes perfect sense that you are a-mil already
Anonymous
Troy Day I’m actually post mil. I believe all nations, to include Israel, will worship Christ before His return
Anonymous
Kyle Williams you say you are post-mil which makes you non-Augustinian however most calvinists are a-mil as Augustin
Anonymous
Troy Day I’m not concerned with being Augustinian, or Calvinist for that matter. I’m trying to be biblical
Anonymous
Kyle Williams well Philip Williams claims to be a true Jonathan Edwards student – was Jonathan Edwards posts mil calvinist or not?
Anonymous
Kyle Williams this is great because neither Augustine or Calvin had a true Biblical eschatology
Anonymous
Troy Day far better than Darby or Schofield. Heretics they were
Anonymous
Kyle Williams
Media: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1996350944083184&set=p.1996350944083184&type=3
Anonymous
A pride of lions is always led by the strongest and the lion is the symbol of England.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn come again? Philip Williams had coffee with lions in Africa
Anonymous
Troy Day Lester Sumrall (and many others no doubt) believed the reference to lions (The Merchants of Tarshish, with all the Young Lions Thereof…) referred to the Anglosphere. And a pride of lions is lead by the strongest lion, which is the US at this time.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn what about Lester Sumrall now? Are you saying Lester Sumrall was fake too? Ricky Grimsley Kyle Williams
Anonymous
Troy Day yes, I believe so. Christ is the final Prophet
Anonymous
Kyle Williams SO Lester Sumrall was fake too? was he a prophet ?
Anonymous
Troy Day if he claimed to be, then yes.
Anonymous
Troy Day Lester Sumrall was the real deal.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn yes he was and Kyle Williams is wrong again
Anonymous
Thanksgiving is a time for family celebration and gathering. While we associate this holiday with turkeys, pies, and football in the modern day, the history of Thanksgiving actually starts in the 1620’s and it’s been an American tradition for 400 years! This year, Thanksgiving falls on Thursday, November 25th and it’s a great opportunity to honor this traditional American holiday with the story of the first Thanksgiving and historical facts.
When did the tradition of Thanksgiving begin?
The first Thanksgiving celebration occurred in November of 1621 at Plymouth, Massachusetts between the Plymouth colonists and the Wampanoag Indians.
What is the story of Thanksgiving?
The Pilgrims came over on the Mayflower in 1620, and after a harsh first winter of disease only half of the passengers lived to springtime. During the following spring, the Pilgrims were approached by an English-speaking member of the Pawtuxet tribe named Squanto. Squanto taught the Pilgrims how to grow corn, catch fish, and even became an interpreter between the Pilgrims and The Wampanoag Tribe. When the Pilgrims’ first corn harvest was a success in the fall of 1621, they invited the Wampanoag to celebrate with a feast that lasted three days – hence the first Thanksgiving.
When did it become an official holiday?
In 1789, President George Washington issued the first Thanksgiving proclamation to be held on Thursday, November 26th of that year. Succeeding presidents also designated days of thanks during their presidencies, but it wasn’t until 1863 when President Abraham Lincoln proclaimed a national Thanksgiving Day to be held each November.
FUN FACTS:
Nearly 90% of Americans eat turkey on Thanksgiving Day today, although there is no way to know whether turkey was served during the first Thanksgiving in Plymouth
The “Turkey Pardon” by the President of the United States spares one of two Thanksgiving turkeys from slaughter each year, a tradition that began in the mid-1900’s
The first college football game played on Thanksgiving was between Yale and Princeton in 1876, and the first ever broadcasted Thanksgiving Day football game was held in Detroit between the Detroit Lions and the Chicago Bears in 1934
The Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade has been a tradition since 1924 and attracts between 2 to 3 million spectators to New York City each year
https://fortune.com/2020/11/25/native-americans-politics-400-years-mayflower/
Anonymous
Kyle Williams Gerald R. McDermott shows that the Reformed tradition on Israel has been diverse; not all Reformed theologians are supersessionists In Calvinist interpretations of the Hebrew Bible, Israel was usually portrayed as a nation chosen by God to preserve his law
Anonymous
Kyle Williams Augustine places Jews in a different category from pagans and heretics. Whereas pagans receive their religion from demons and heretics from their own hubris, Jews and Catholics derive their religion from the One God. Augustine makes this plainly clear in Contra Faustum: “But if we divide all who have a religion into those who worship one God and those who worship many gods, the Manichaeans must be classed along with the Pagans, and we along with the Jews.” This is a very proper a-mil dual covenant theology Billy Monroe Poff and Philip Williams have long rejected NOW Calvin only believed in 1 covenant This is basically hyper calivnistic schizophrenia @ its best
Anonymous
Troy Day modern day day Judaism has nothing to do with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Talmud and those who promulgate its blasphemies are of their father, as Christ told them. Judaism is a Christian heresy
Anonymous
Kyle Williams there you go again with the calvinator forum talk Are you even reading ALL the quotes from Augustine I posted that contradicts most if not all of what you are trying to say right now ?
Anonymous
Troy Day are you familiar with what the Jews teach concerning the Lord Jesus? I’m being biblical here.
If anyone love not the Lord Jesus let him be anathema marnatha
Anonymous
Kyle Williams dont get OFF topic
I know how Luther and Calvin believed Jews teach concerning the Lord Jesus? — this is enough for this topic. You cannot be Biblical if you are calvinist, which is also well established. BTW you just proved point #1 that you are more a-mil than post-mil as I ‘ve been saying Ask my why?
Anonymous
Troy Day it’s not off topic. However, I am interested in how you arrived at this conclusion.. so, why?
Anonymous
Kyle Williams you starting to make less and less sense
Anonymous
Troy Day pot, meet kettle. You said to “ask [you],why”. if your statements were more cogent, perhaps I could respond more directly.
Anonymous
Kyle Williams Oscar Valdez Philip Williams Anička Bubanová Premillennialism began to be revived as a result of at least three factors. First, the
Reformers went back to the sources, which for them was the Bible and Apostolic
Fathers. This exposed them to an orthodox premillennialism. Specifically significant
was the reappearance of the full text of Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, which included the
last five chapters that espouse a consistent futurism and cast the 70th week of Daniel
into the future.
Second, they repudiated much, not all, of the allegorization that dominated
mediaeval hermeneutics by adopting a more literal approach, especially in the area of
the historical exegesis.
Third, many of the Protestants came into contact with Jews and learned Hebrew.
This raised concerns over whether passages that speak of national Israel were to be
taken historically or continued to be allegorized within the tradition of the Middle Ages.
The more the Reformers took them as historical, the more they were awakened to
premillennial interpretations, in spite of the fact that they were often labeled “Judaizers.”
By the late 1500’s and the early 1600’s, premillennialism began to return as a factor
within the mainstream church after more than a 1,000 year reign of amillennialism. With
the flowering of biblical interpretation during the late Reformation Period, premillennial
interpreters began to abound throughout Protestantism and so did the development of
sub-issues like the rapture.
It has been claimed that some separated the rapture from the second coming as
early as Joseph Mede in his seminal work Clavis Apocalyptica (1627), who is
considered the father of English premillennialism. Paul Boyer says that Increase
Mather proved “that the saints would ‘be caught up into the Air’ beforehand, thereby
escaping the final conflagration–an early formulation of the Rapture doctrine more fully
elaborated in the nineteenth century.”8
Whatever these men were saying, it is clear that
the application of a more literal hermeneutic was leading to a distinction between the
rapture and the second coming as separate events.
Anonymous
In 1620, the Mayflower arrived at Plymouth with the Pilgrims. Most of them were of a Calvinistic separatist group known as the Brownists. Other Calvinistic Puritans settled in the nearby Massachusetts Bay Colony. Philip Williams Calvinistic separatist group bascailly represented pre-trib pre-mil believers among the first American settlers. Nelson Banuchi The Brownists, also known as Saints among themselves and Separatists by outsiders, were a group of English Dissenters or early Separatists from the Church HOWEVER the oldest city is St Augustine in FL started by Spanish settler who were catholic non-reformers
Anonymous
markup: Pending (0) | Approved (88,611) | Spam (0) | Trash (0)