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Charles Page | PentecostalTheology.com
Submerging in water will not get you to heaven but it will get you remission of actual personal committed sin.
The deliverance from inherited sin gets you to heaven and there is nothing you can do to be released from the curse on Adam and his heritage. Christ alone accomplished and accomplishes our salvation.
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 1:27 PM]
Can you enter heaven in sin? If baptism is how you access remission of sins, and you can’t enter heaven in sin, then wouldn’t it make it salvational.
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 1:29 PM]
No sin can enter heaven. Not personal or otherwise. And I guess that brings up the issue of original sin.
James Armstrong [10/09/2015 2:42 PM]
Hey guys, look it’s Chuck Charles
page the only man on earth wiser than Paul and Peter. He has a new doctrine neither of them had.
James Armstrong [10/09/2015 2:44 PM]
How come peter talked about it not only in acts but also In His epistles?
James Armstrong [10/09/2015 2:47 PM]
You know I’m done. God have mercy on you Paul and Peter call any other gospel than theirs damnable heresies so I pray you turn from your tradition of man to the truth of Acts 2:38 salvation before you get any more blood on your hands. If baptism isn’t required, what do you have to lose? If it is an you didn’t do it you chance losing eternity. Not a game I’d play but it’s your choice not mine.
Charles Page [10/09/2015 3:21 PM]
The Roman Catholics teach that at water baptism the candidate has justification and regeneration conferred upon the baptized sinner. They agree with Act 2:38
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 4:04 PM]
They sprinkle and certainly do not do it in Jesus name.
Charles Page [10/09/2015 5:59 PM]
submerging an infant in Jesus’ name will get it to heaven???
James Armstrong [10/09/2015 6:44 PM]
An infant can’t repent, therefore shouldn’t be baptized.
Charles Page [10/09/2015 8:07 PM]
an infant can’t go to heaven until they can repent and be sprinkled or submerged in water, right?
Charles Page [10/09/2015 8:47 PM]
The Centurian’s household was baptized and that probably included his slaves/servants ‘household’
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 8:55 PM]
Oh God. Yes babies have to be drowned to be saved. And speak in tongues.
Charles Page [10/09/2015 8:56 PM]
That is what I thought you would say!
Patricia Gardner Smith [10/09/2015 9:30 PM]
The thief on the cross never was baptized but Jesus said to him,”today you will be with me in paradise.
Patricia Gardner Smith [10/09/2015 9:33 PM]
Folks this man does not believe what he is saying or asking.He is one that just likes to ask questions and try to confuse you.Don’t be fooled.
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 9:35 PM]
The thief on the cross wasn’t a part of the new testament church. And Acts 2:38 was not preached to him. That’s like saying Moses wasn’t baptized in Jesus Name.
Patricia Gardner Smith [10/09/2015 9:39 PM]
Just a bunch of people that like to argue.
Peyton Gurley [10/09/2015 10:01 PM]
I love it
James Armstrong [10/10/2015 9:57 AM]
Debating mr Page is actually strengthening my walk. Because even if his heart is closed maybe, just maybe someone who has never heard this truth will here it and be saved. I would give everyday of my life just to save that one soul.
Jim Blekfeld [10/10/2015 6:57 PM]
Only the Blood shed by Jesus can remit a person’s sin. It did the theif beside Jesus. He died after Jesus died and wasn’t submerged.
Susan Duckett [10/10/2015 9:00 PM]
Thank you Jim Blekfeld. If anything other than the blood of Jesus would have redeemed us, He never would have had to give His life for all of us here arguing about it. <3
Teri Shenk [10/11/2015 12:32 AM]
Agreed, Susan!!
Peyton Gurley [10/11/2015 8:20 AM]
How do you apply the blood of Jesus? Baptism in His Name.
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Romans 6:3-7
James Armstrong [10/11/2015 8:51 AM]
Guys, the thief died before the plan of salvation was given. Christ saved him on the spot. Unless you are literally dying beside Christ, which isn’t going to happen again.
He died under law. We are under grace. If you want to risk eternity because you stubbornly hold onto tradition an theory instead of truth that’s your right. However you will not say no one told me. Your blood will not be on my hands. Sin is only washed away, remitted, in Jesus name baptism. Your not arguing with me or Peyton Gurley or any other man, but with the word of God and his plan of salvation.
Peyton Gurley [10/11/2015 9:02 AM]
The great commission according to Mark says that if you believe AND ARE BAPTIZED you will be saved. If not, you will be damned. And it was Jesus saying it. So not only Peter said it, but Jesus said it.
Mary Ellen Nissley
Oh boy. 🙂 Good bible study subject.
Water Baptism is a spiritual act. Why? Because it is an identification with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection. It is not to tell other people that you are now a Christian. It is rather for the purpose of fulfilling all righteousness.
Baptism is a command of Christ. Anyone who refuses to be baptized is disobedient and rebellious.
Of course, we could get embroiled in arguments over hypothetical situations, where perhaps someone wasn’t able to be baptized, before they died…
But the fact is, those are exceptions to the rule. And if we allow exceptions to define the rule, then we no longer are going by the original rule, but a new one, invented out of our human reasoning.
“He who believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Most theologians mentally cross out those three words in the center. It doesn’t mirror their carefully reasoned-out emasculation of water baptism. So they mentally discard that part, as not necessary.
But God knows how to use words to convey precisely what He means. Jesus did not waste his words, speaking nonsense. God says what He means, and He means what He says.
Those words mean something. And like the rest of Jesus’ words, they are immeasurably valuable.
This is why I say it is a spiritual act. Because obedience to God is always a spiritual act. It has spiritual power.
We are baptized into His death, and raised to walk in newness of life. There is power there that most of us have not realized. And if we don’t realize it, we will not step into it.
No the water itself does not save. But obedience is part of faith. Faith without works is dead. And dead faith cannot save.
James Craig
AMEN!!!!!
Alden Lopez Salguero
No, but it will allow you to obtain Eternal Life!
Varnel Watson
Jesus allows obtaining eternal life not our works or rituals
Alden Lopez Salguero
Troy Day What about Marc: 16:15-18. Jesus himself said that!
Varnel Watson
what about it?
Louise Cummings
So I guess the Words Of Jesus didn’t mean anything then.as He was going up ascending back to the Farther. When He told His Disciples. To go into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature. Baptizing them in The Name Of The Father, Son and The Holy Ghost. It’s true it won’t do you any good at all , unless you have been born again.
Link Hudson
Please show me the verses that talk about getting into heaven. Into heaven, not the ‘kingdom of heaven.’ Those are different concepts.
Peter preached baptism for the remission of sins, and that ‘baptism not saves you, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God, but the resurrection of Jesus Christ.:
Louise Cummings
I will agree. I have to agree with the Word. I think that’s what I have been explaining. Other than the Lord said do is to show the remission of sins. I don’t condemn them if they haven’t. But I believe it’s a restore to the world. I have been buried with Him in Baptism.
Louise Cummings
It’s a testimony to the World. That the flesh has died out to sin.and come alive unto righteousness. You are no longer living in Sis. Besides. Jesus said to be baptized. To show the world. You have got your sins forgiven. I am not going to argue if you don’t be Baptized , you won’t go to Heaven. But it shows obedience. John 3;5. Could mean the water comes with a fleshly birth. But if you wasn’t born in the flesh. Then on way you could be baptized in water. You would be here. But I’m not trying to argue if you are not Baptized in water. You can’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I know some people doesn’t believe they have to be baptized in water. But to walk in obedience. I think you need to be.
Link Hudson
So Troy Day, do you think saints who drown will go to heaven or not?
Link Hudson
Louise Cummings Is there any scripture that says that baptism is a testimony to the world? Any scripture that says it is a public testimony? I haven’t found that in the Bible.
Cyril of Jerusalem, I think, says they used to baptize people naked. In Jerusalem, they may have followed traditions that derived from the Jewish mikveh, bathing to be cleansed of uncleanness. So if they got baptized naked, it might have been kind of private.
Were there crowds around when Philip baptized the Ethiopian? Maybe a driver watched? He could ahve had some guards. We don’t know. What about when Ananias baptized Saul of Tarsus. There could have just been two men there. Maybe Judas from Straight Street or his family watched. We don’t know. Paul may have just baptized the jailer and his family with Silas there. It doesn’t say there were other witnesses there.
Louise Cummings
Showing a good conscience, is that the same as showing a good conscience to the world. It seems the same to me.
Link Hudson
It says toward God.
Louise Cummings
That’s right. Always quote the Scripture correctly to me.
Louise Cummings
The Ethiopian and Phillip. The Bible doesn’t mention any but those two being there. And nothing about taking off clothes. Phillip was caught away by the Spirit, into s different location. I’m sure the Ethiopian had changed of clothes.
Link Hudson
Baptism was probably originally taking a bath. They used to strip down and have a mikveh to go into the temple. Jews had customs related to bathing to cleanse themselves after uncleanness. The Bible said to wash their whole body with water and be unclean until even. Modern Jews bathe in rainwater.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson what do you mean by going to heaven? Wernt you the one who claim the church never goes to the Heavens?
Link Hudson
Troy Day You put an S on it and you are way off the mark. The saints will meet the Lord in the air.
What I actually did is ASK where the Bible teaches that believers are going to heaven. The Bible does speak of being absent from the body and present with the Lord. Disembodied spirits may ‘go to heaven’. But that is something we infer, not directly stated. Not something emphasized in scripture.
And the end of the book of Revelation the city desvmcends to the New Earth.
The emphasis is on the resurrection and the return of Christ, in scripture. We are not told to comfot one another with tall of disembodied bliss in heave when someone dies. But we are told to comfort one another with talk of the resurrection.
Varnel Watson
So does the church go to heaven or not?
Link Hudson
Troy Day again, does the Bible teach the church goes to heaven? Is that the hope we are pooling toward. I added a paragraph at the end of the last post.
Varnel Watson
If I remember correctly you claimed the church does not go to heaven at all The BIBLE says otherwise
Link Hudson
Troy Day As I recall, I pointed out it is not dorectly taight, and onterpreters infer it. It certainly is not emphasized like tge redirection is. Which do evangelicals including Pentecostals emphasize? Did going to heaven sjhow upin evangelistic sermons or teaching in Acys? Paul mentions the resurrection. Peter speaks of times of refreshing
Will all the resurrected
Varnel Watson
so do you think the church does not go to heaven?
Jared Cheshire
Peter called it the baptism that saves.
Varnel Watson
Jared Peter did not say JUST that. He continued to say: It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ It is JESUS who saves us NOT the baptism that but symbolizes that JESUS SAVES us
Link Hudson
Peter says baptism now saves you…by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
In Acts 2, Peter calls people to accept the Gospel through being baptized. Not his words, but he seems to use water baptism where Pentecostals use repeat-after-me-prayers or an altar call.
Varnel Watson
In Acts 2, Peter calls people to come to faith and then be baptized NOT through being baptized Link Hudson you really need to read the Greek on this one
Link Hudson
Fair enough. I changed it to ‘accept the Gospel.’ Faith starts in the heart. Methodologically, (Trinitarian) Pentecostals use altar calls and repeating prayers similar to how Peter used baptism.
There are of scripture teaching and promises connected to water baptism that we do not have regarding our made up altar calls and prayers, e.g. remission of sins, burial and resurrection with Christ.
Varnel Watson
http://probible.net/acts-238/
Link Hudson
Troy Day Not sure which one of those opinions/interpretations you thought proved the case.
Varnel Watson
You have to look at it from all possible points