Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
Susan Duckett | PentecostalTheology.com
So I am probably going to start another argument but lets talk music. What do think about contemporary, and Christian rap? Do you think that church should only have hymns?
Norman Rice Jr. [09/12/2015 7:35 PM]
This subject has NOTHING TO DO WITH PENTECOSTAL Theology, sorry!
Bertrum Sage [09/12/2015 7:37 PM]
No herms. . too
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 7:40 PM]
Norman Rice Jr., I know that this has nothing to do with Pentecostal Theology. I was trying to lighten the mood. I can delete it if you want me to.
Peter A Vandever [09/12/2015 7:42 PM]
Do people get saved?
Peter A Vandever [09/12/2015 7:42 PM]
Missiology is very much core to Pentecostalism.
Norman Rice Jr. [09/12/2015 7:43 PM]
no its ok, sorry,Susan Duckett:)-
Norman Rice Jr. [09/12/2015 7:43 PM]
YOU are 100% “Bogus”, Peter A Vandever!! Consistently stirring up controversial stuff here!! 100%
Peter A Vandever [09/12/2015 7:44 PM]
I am not the one judging everyone and saying if you disagree with one little thing; you are not Pentecostal. I am open to all Spirit filled.
Norman Rice Jr. [09/12/2015 7:47 PM]
stand by what i say!! Bogus! dontr care if you like it or not- im calling you out, guy!! 100% bogus and falsehoods
Allen James Bible [09/12/2015 9:20 PM]
“Sing unto the Lord a new song…” Ps. 96:1, Ps. 98:1, Isaiah 42:10. I myself have a Christian band that plays rock /pop style of music. Genres and styles of music aren’t themselves possessive of good or bad but rather the singer and writer. 2 Kings 3 Elisha asked for the minstrel to play and the Spirit moved on him to prophecy. Personally, there are so many hymns filled with doubt and unbelief.
Ed Boardman [09/12/2015 9:24 PM]
So let the worldly music in of course that what evangelical theology is all about comprise
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:25 PM]
Ed Boardman, what is worldly music?
Allen James Bible [09/12/2015 9:27 PM]
Yes, what is worldly music? What music is played in Heaven? What genre of music did God create and what genre did he not create? Can God not redeem every genre of music?
Ed Boardman [09/12/2015 9:35 PM]
Moses dealt with rock music and what happened
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:36 PM]
The moon and stars they wept, The morning sun was dead
The Savior of the world was fallen
His body on the cross, His blood poured out for us
The weight of every curse upon Him
One final breath He gave as Heaven looked away
The Son of God was laid in darkness
A battle in the grave, A war on death was waged
The power of hell forever broken, The ground began to shake
The stone was rolled away, His perfect love could not be overcome
Now death where is your sting, Our resurrected King has rendered you defeated
Forever He is Glorified, Forever He is lifted high
Forever He is risen
He is alive, He is alive!!!
This song is called Forever and I love to hear my kids sing it!! I like the Kari Jobe version. My favorite parts of the song are: The weight of every curse upon Him, take that in for a minute, we complain about everything from family issues to the weather and much more but every curse was placed upon His shoulders. I find that very humbling. My other favorite part is: The ground began to shake, The stone was rolled away. I can really feel the Holy Spirit when I listen to this song and when we sing this song. He has overcome!!!
Allen James Bible [09/12/2015 9:38 PM]
That’s one of my favorite songs as well Susan!
Charles Page [09/12/2015 9:44 PM]
The power of Hell forever broken!!!
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:49 PM]
I love Chris Tomlin, Hillsong, Hillsong kids, and too many to name here but I also love the old hymns. I also love Andy Mineo, Lacrae, and many more! If this music can reach people for God then I am all for it. Some people would never listen to a hymn.
Alan N Carla Smith [09/12/2015 9:51 PM]
I guess next we are gonna ask about the colors of carpet?
OR if the stage should even have carpet?
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:53 PM]
Alan N Carla Smith, we can talk about that if you want to. The reason I posted this is because people were being so unreasonable in other posts and I was trying to lighten the mood.
Alan N Carla Smith [09/12/2015 9:55 PM]
Guess it didn’t work. Try again
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:56 PM]
I understand that there are people that no one can lighten their mood. Some people are just mean and cranky no matter what. I get that. Thank you for letting me know.
Ed Boardman [09/12/2015 9:56 PM]
Better one 1 Timothy 3 why woman isn’t to be a pastor or in authority
Susan Duckett [09/12/2015 9:57 PM]
Ed Boardman, wonder why more men are not stepping up and taking responsibility for what they are supposed to?
Ed Boardman [09/12/2015 9:59 PM]
They are in my faith why not in your faith I can’t answer for
Bobby Watkins [09/13/2015 4:31 PM]
Contemporary/ Hymns/ Country Gospel
Bobby Watkins [09/13/2015 4:38 PM]
Bobby Watkins liked this on Facebook.
Edwin Mendez [09/13/2015 5:24 PM]
God accepts all worship according to His Word.
Ricky Grimsley
Christian music is just like christian anything else. There are those out there that are genuine and those that arent. I went to a concert by a band called DISCIPLE. There are on the heavy rock/metal side. They are adequate musicians but let me tell you….when the singer stopped the show and opened his bible…he preached the word. I felt the presence of God and people got saved that night. I still remember the sermon. He talked about his best friend that died right after he had rejected the gospel after church one night. He talked about how every moment could be your last so you better repent.
Roger David
For me music is a gift from God to be used in worship. It is not for entertainment purposes. That being said I have never been able to rap in worship to God or thrash around a mosh pit in worship to God. I also don’t know many Hymns as I got saved later in life and was not raised with the old hymns but with a more Vineyard style worship.
I have discouraged my children from listening to any music that is not worship/praise. No matter what it calls itself. Christian Rap, Christian Contemporary, Christian Pop, etc.. I am very picky about the lyrics….a lot of new worship songs I will not permit my children to sing either.
As for me and my family that’s how we do.
Mark Walker
Holmes Bible College used to teach that any music with syncopation was wrong..I remember arguing with Joe McKinney about christian rock of the time…
As then..I’m the same now…
I love it..it’s all my wife listens to (christian rap) and she is actually learning from it and gets excited about new things she learns.
Thisl “take my life ” always stirs me up..
https://youtu.be/94KGfRsfnj0
I think music it’s self is amoral just like speech and it depends on The intent and how you use it..reaching
Hank Salmons Jr.
That’s pretty good.
Mike McMahan
If it glorifies the lord then its all right by me.. open those closed minds.
Hank Salmons Jr.
Every culture has it own way to sing to the lord. If someone is filled with the Holy Ghost and can rap let him. Let him share his words to the people.
Where in the Bible says you can’t do that
Paul Jones
Hmm, I seem to recall Charles and John Wesley, founders of the great sanctification movement in America actually using the tune of tavern songs to write church music? Much of our traditional “Southern Gospel” has its roots in country music. It seems that each generation and each ethnic group uses the music genre of its day to communicate the message of the cross.
Scotty Searan
I hear this argument. Much to me means most. Name some
Paul Jones
Scotty, I would dispute that “much” automatically means “most.” There was MUCH death during the Civil War; however, only around 2% of the population was killed.
However, I do concede the point that “Some” would have been more accurate.
Of Luther’s 37 musical compositions, three came from unknown sources or from known secular sources. That’s less than 10%, but it’s more than the 2% statistic that represents the number killed in America’s bloodiest war. (Source on Luther’s compositions: Robert Harrell, Martin Luther, His Music, His Message (Greenville, SC, 1980), p. 18. )
Scotty Searan
Paul Jones I know very little about Martin Luther’s songs. I do concede that there are some “Southern Gospel Songs” with country music influence. I can name one that is not in the Church Hymnal, but was popular back in 70’s and some sing it today. “I Know” written by Laverne Tripp. But it was set to a country tune “Sweeter Than the Flowers.” “There Goes My Everything” had a lyric change to “He’s My Everything” Some have taken other songs and changed the lyrics. Personally, I don’t sing a song that the lyrics was changed to make it Gospel. I may be judgemental and forgive me, but I don’t think they are inspired to do that. I will also readily agree that most Southern Gospel songs have a country flavor, because of the culture of the area of the country where they lived. Country music came out of the Appalachian Mountain, as well as the Ozarks. Texas had a swing music and it influence the artist when they were given a song. I prefer SGM and hymns, because I can understand the words and the message they are trying to produce. Not all CCM and worship music is bad. I like Dallas Holm and Carman, because I understood the message of the lyrics. Some of the melody I wasn’t crazy about, but I accepted it. I don’t like repetitive phrases over and over in music, because it makes it appear that a person or group may be trying to work something up. They sound like the African chants and chants of other countries and some of them are demonic.That is just my conviction and preferences. I am a singer. I have been a worship leader. If the message of a song cannot be portrayed and communicated about Jesus Christ without music, that song song does not need to sung as ministry material on the streets or in the churches.
Paul Jones
Scotty, I think we agree on most. I am probably tolerant of more styles of music, but I also dislike the constant repetition, in that it seems to be geared up for promoting emotionalism and also bores the daylights out of me.
Varnel Watson
You tell me Who’s in the house? Who? Who? Mark Walker You went to Holmes Bible?
Mark Walker
Yes sir
Varnel Watson
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-motion-for-a-pentecostal-emotion/
Mark Walker
Finally replied to your pm Troy Day
Scotty Searan
Yes I like Southern Gospel and The hymns. I have been guilty of fighting tooth and toe nail against CCM. I was too judgmental. I believe your music can be just as worldly by being too country as it can be by being too rocky. I sing Gospel songs and hymns. I play acoustic guitar with no sound tracks. I like spontaneity of this. I sing a couple of worship choruses. I don’t like 7/11 songs. I don’t like repetitiveness very much where it almost comes down to a chant. I am also against the big lights and stage gimmicks. The Holy Ghost doesn’t need gimmicks. I don’t agree with choreographed dancing. It draws too much attention to the person, not the message. I could go on. But let me get to my main point. I am 64. I speak from experiences in church music all my life. When I was younger we learned new songs, but we didn’t learn them at the expense of older songs. We sang both. But what I am seeing today is the younger people basically throwing out the old hymns and songs and singing only the new. If they sing an old hymn they give it a new arrangement and it’s just like a new song. There are still a lot of older people that want to here the old and will tolerate the newer if they feed us to. One day you will be old and you will understand. Honor the elders and you will have success. Don’t just come in and throw out the baby with the bath water. Our church has 2 hymns in southern style, prayer, worship choruse, specials, then the sermon and it works well. If the worship team wants to sing an hymn with a new arrangemen, they do it in their slot. Love goes a long ways. Both you and I are admonished to prefper the brother. God bless you
Link Hudson
Psalm 8
To the Chief Musician. On the instrument of Gath.A Psalm of David.
1 O Lord, our Lord,
How excellent is Your name in all the earth,
Who have set Your glory above the heavens!
The Chief Musician was to play upon the instrument of Gath. If an instrument of a city of the Philistines could be used to sing these Psalms, why not an electric guitar?
Varnel Watson
oh dear
Psalm 8 title actually has the word is GITTITH. Many Bibles do not translate that word. It means a wine-press. For the director of music. According to gittith referred to to the leader of the music going on during the wine-pressing season and the following immediately 8 days of Sukkot + Shemini Atzeret …
Link Hudson
Troy some Bible translators apparently disagree with you. The word could either refer to Gath or a winepress. Could you share the steps you took in your research to come to such a specific conclusion?
Street Preacherz
Do hymns talk about child molestation, transgenders, prostitution, addiction, getting off the streets, going to hell and giving your life to Jesus Christ. 19th & Greenfield. It’s not for me. It’s for them. Where they live. In the hood!
Street Preacherz
A couple of verses;
“Christ died to save us from our sin”
“Turn to Jesus”
Scotty Searan
If the people can understand the message give it to them on the street, but when you come to church sing songs that all can understand and worship to. I don’t know a hymn or song from the red back Church Hymnal that everyone cannot sing and understand. You may not like the style, but it is the message that makes the difference.
Varnel Watson
Some limited Talmud readings followed by Strong and other elementary / beginners ./ intermediate Hebrew lexicons claim this to be “the harp which David brought from Gath” There is absolutely NO Biblical evidence that Geth had harps or David brought any. It would have been also very very non-Kosher that an instrument not ordered to Moses on the mountain be used in priestly worship If anything God was always ordering against using tools of idolatry for his own worship. Nevertheless the true reading of Psalm 8 title with the word GITTITH is winepress . Many Bibles do not translate that word. It means a wine-press. For the director of music. According to gittith referred to to the leader of the music going on during the wine-pressing season and the following immediately 8 days of Sukkot + Shemini Atzeret … The order in the title reminds of similar titles in the psalms of Ascension and others Furthermore, there is not Psalm titles that mention other gentile cities as part of the order of worship which proves the title has nothing to do with Geth or any artificial “theology” enforced by such unBiblical interpretation
Street Preacherz
Thanks I’ll look it up…
Link Hudson
The theory that the phrase is used to refer to something sung during the winepressing season is no less far-fetched than the instrument of Gath interpretation unless you have evidence that the song was sung during the winepressing season or some good contextual evidence for the use of the term in that way. I read another commentar that had the songs played in teh vineyard. It all seems to be speculation based on meager evidence.
Is there any Jewish commetnary on what the word meant that supports your reading?
IF an instrument weren’t actually used in pagan worship, it may not have been an issue. We aren’t talking about atonment here, but rather music, and David did introduce some innovations it appears, at least in regard to putting music into the tabernacle area.
Street Preacherz
It’s always winepress season
Link Hudson
I just read an opinion that the songs were to be sung by songstresses of Gath. Sounds rather speculative. https://books.google.co.id/books?id=mv1MAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA570&lpg=PA570&dq=gitteth+talmud&source=bl&ots=cX74kDHe_i&sig=Ferphczk7KBK3ezSVxu_v9ljNvc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjf76nd3qbUAhWBNY8KHZcTBOwQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=gitteth%20&f=false
Link Hudson
Street Preacherz That’ll preach! 🙂
Varnel Watson
Word instrument / harp is not even in the text Literally – To the conductor, at/over the gittith /winepress/, a song of David.
Street Preacherz
You mean David the run away slave? He had a wine press moment
Varnel Watson
Psalm 8 has nothing to do with Geth or running away 🙂 Just read it. Jewish Rabbi in the Midrash it was a conversation between God and and angel
Street Preacherz
Sorry off topic.
Debbie Thompkins
I think churches are getting lost as bats and they’re going to loose the true believers.
Scotty Searan
Now my remarks is going to be about Pentecostal or Holiness churches, not other denominations.
If I understand the history of rock ‘n’ rock (contemporary music) . When It first started, it was created from a mixture of music styles.
It was created from a mixture of Pentecostal/Holiness church music from both the Black & White churches, blues music and jazz music.
Elvis Presley was raised in the Tupelo Assembly Of God.
Jerry Lee Lewis attended Ferriday Assembly of God and was also called to preach.
Johnny Cash attended a holiness church in Arkansas.
Explain to me why or how it just happen that Pentecostal music and the secular music would combine to create one of the most evil forces to pollute the minds of our young people and to bring harm to this world.
What was the element that the world needed?
The world needed Joy.
The young people needed Joy.
Do you remember the old hymn: “Joy Unspeakable” How many times Have I seen the glory fall when the church sang that song.
Sinners would stand outside the churches and listen to the songs the Holiness people were singing. (This was before we had central heat and air and windows sealed shut so they can’t be open.)
Who saw that? Satan.
Now for the most part holiness churches wanted you to bring your guitars, fiddles, banjos, horns or etc. and worship the Lord. They didn’t have all the hi-tech gadgets to make an instrument sound different and distorted. The instruments sounded like there natural sound whether it was amplified or not. They didn’t have confusion over music. They could sing it with a country flair, or a pop flair and there was no confusion. You grew up listening to that music in church and enjoyed because it was joyful. If there was any fog in the house, it was either caused from the people dancing on the dirt or sawdust floors in the Spirit when the Holy Ghost came into the house. I have seen people shouting and dancing in the Spirit on a slow song and it didn’t have to worked up.
Satan saw that joy. So he enticed 3 or 4 young men from the holiness churches to go to Memphis, Tn. and there was a representative of Satan sitting in the control booth looking for a act to record.
But these men wanted to sing Gospel, but he said: “Record this song for me and let’s see how it sounds. You can mix the gospel with it if you want, but try this.” And they fell for the trap. They got on the devil’s sticky paper and couldn’t get loose.
Satan is a deceiver.
His ultimate goal is to stop the spread of the Gospel of Christ. If he can’t stop it weaken it with a mix.
Then in the 60’s a spirit of rebellion hit the young people. Where did it come from? Out of the music they were listening to. They wanted free love, the sanctity of marriage started being question. Let everybody do their own thing in the name of love and peace. Don’t it sound good. If you are old enough you remember those days with Volkswagen bus painted with flowers and the “Flower Children”
Then the next plan of Satan hatched.
“THE JESUS MOVEMENT”
Hank Salmons Jr.
David use what when he was praising to god?
Varnel Watson
David was the original MC using the new Geth-o strings to jam with his little Gs some PW to God in the fuge’s camp. Peace out to Jerusalem!
Link Hudson
That one was to the cheif musician, a Psalm of David. It doesn’t say David did the jamin’.
Derrick Stokes
Love it as long as is Christ centered
Varnel Watson
gospel gangsta ?
Derrick Stokes
Troy Day meaning?
Varnel Watson
Derrick Stokes you dont know who gospel gangsta are? – oh well
Derrick Stokes
Troy Day I know who the Gospel Ganstaz are. Yes.
Derrick Stokes
I had their cds as a teen
Varnel Watson
chill riding through the hood in a brown Coupe Deville
Robert Erwine
Yawn … spoken word with a back beat
Varnel Watson
is how liberal in hillsong started right?
Robert Erwine
Beats me
Varnel Watson
Robert Erwine well you are a liberal right ?
Robert Erwine
on some things I suppose , but I fall outside of the political spectrum overall .