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27. God was the Father of Jesus, not Jesus Himself (Eph. 1:3,17; 3:14).
28. In parables Jesus illustrates His relationship to the Father as that of separate persons (Mt. 21:33-46; Jn. 15:1-8).
29. People are taught to go directly to the Father and not to pray to Jesus (Jn. 14:12-15; 15:16; 16:23-26).
30. The Father knew things that Jesus did not know (Mk. 13:32; Acts 1:7).
31. Others saw Jesus as a separate Person from the Father (Dan. 7:9-14; Acts 7:56).
32. Jesus committed His own spirit to the Father, not to Himself (Lk. 23:46).
33. Jesus claimed that He came from God and was going back to God (Jn. 8:42; 16:5; 10:36; 17:8).
34. God is a Spirit, not flesh and blood like Jesus was (Jn. 4:24; 19:34; Mt. 16:17; Lk. 24:39).
35. People on earth with Jesus heard God speak as a separate person from heaven (Mt. 3:17; 17:5; 2Pet. 1:16-18).
36. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, not the Father Himself (Jn. 5:17-35).
37. Jesus called the Father “My God,” even after the resurrection (Jn. 20:17; Rev. 3:12).
38. Jesus called God “My Father” 57 times (Jn. 15:1; Rev. 2:27). How could He be His own God and Father and beget Himself?
39. When Jesus was born on earth angels and people still recognized God in heaven (Lk. 2:7-16). Were they mistaken about God? Was the child all of God on earth and in heaven also?
40. Mary and Joseph acted with utmost ignorance if the baby Jesus was all of God, for they presented Him to the Lord Who was someone other than Jesus (Lk. 2:22).
41. Simeon had a revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit that Jesus was not the only member of the Godhead (Lk. 2:26-33).
42. John the Baptist knew the Father, but he did not know the Son (Jn. 1:31-34).
43. The Son died, not the Father (1Cor. 15:3; 1Pet. 2:24).
44. Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father, so could not be the Father or the begetter of Himself (Jn. 1:14).
45. Jesus claimed that He could not and did not do anything of Himself, but that the Father worked through Him (Jn. 5:19,30; 6:38; 8:28; 12:49-50).
46. He did not come to do His own will, but that of the Father who sent Him (Jn. 5:30; 6:38).
47. His doctrine was not His, but the Father’s (Jn. 7:16-17; 8:26).
48. He did not speak of Himself, but of the Father who had sent Him (Jn. 7:16-18; 8:26-40).
49. He did not please Himself, but the Father (Jn. 8:29).
50. He was a Son, not a Father over the house of God (Jn. 8:35-36; Heb. 3:6).
51. He had the same relation to His Father that men have with Satan (Jn. 8:16,35-44; 9:4).
52. He honored the Father as all people should (Jn. 8:49).
53. He did not seek His own glory, but that of the Father (Jn. 8:50-54; 17:4).
54. He knew the Father, but was not the Father (Jn. 8:55; 10:15).
Varnel Watson
This is a good one Walter Polasik
Walter Polasik
Troy, I didn’t have a chance yet to read the entire article (it’s a lengthy one). From what I can see it really does bring out all of the references regarding the Trinity. I once did a paper on the Trinity entitled, “Echad, Yachid and the Trinity in the Old Testament”. (I also cited the comparative usage of Greek in the N.T., esp, “heis” for “one”, compound unity in Jn. 17 and elsewhere). My only problem with the above article is (predictably) #16 allegedly showing how the Son IS (not was) positionally inferior to the Father. (and, by inference, the Spirit). The reason this is a problem you already know (as we’ve been over it many times). God could not be ONE GOD if the constituent members were so radically ranked and unequal in power and eternality (or, more precisely, infinity).
The other problem I have is in the very introduction to the article. I now realize where Benny Hinn got his outrageous statement (which he claimed, on TBN at the time, as a “divine revelation”) that each person in the Trinity “has their own personal spirit, soul and body” Hinn prefaced this astounding doctrine by saying, “I’m going to shock you and maybe I should: there’s 9 of ’em!” (You see what he meant, don’t you?) But that’s classic Hinn for you. Little on substance but much shock value. However, biblically there is nothing to support this. Jesus says, “God is Spirit” (Jn. 4:24). This implies, at least to our sense of understanding, non-corporeality. Moreover, He is said to be the “Father of Spirits”. (Heb. 12:9) If you really want to “take off” on all of this you can go study Mormon doctrine on the pre-existence, Elohim making spirit-children in heaven which then await bodies to inhabit (Heb. 10:5). Coincidentally, if God has a body (spiritual or not) what are his spirit-children doing body-less? But then, Mormon theology was always a mess to begin with.
Walter Polasik
As to whether God has an actual body (i.e. looks like us), my personal inclination is that this is true. The fact that the Mormons picked up on it and made it one of their linchpins doesn’t disturb me as much. However, they speak in absolute certainty (due to Smith’s teachings) whereas I can only speculate since the Bible doesn’t give enough data on this. Moreover, the Mormons hold to tri-theism, the belief in THREE literal gods, not one. (They say God is “one” only in “unity of will”). Had we just Gen. 3:22 ALONE to go by, we might conclude tri-theism. But we have more that is said on the subject.
I just don’t like the notion that all too many Pentecostals (and Charismatics and Third-Wavers) like to take off on “flights of fancy” when speculating on things we have little information about—-and some even dare call their conclusions “revelation”. What do you think happened at Arroyo Seco at the 2nd General Conference of the Assemblies of God? Why, a brother had a “revelation” that the early believers were baptized in the name of Jesus only and that since God was said to be ONE He couldn’t possibly be THREE. And the UPCI was born. Yup.
Varnel Watson
Take your time before you respond then Walter Polasik It’s basically 89 proofs full with Bible verses from the BIBLE. Hope you’ve read it!
Apostle Stephen Okema
May you send into my e-mail the 89 proofs of triniyt and other detail teachings for the same subject.
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence Ross Tucker would you like to talk over a few of these?
13. Jesus Christ is called the son of Abraham, David, Mary, and of God (Mt. 1:1; Mk. 1:1; 6:3). He is just as much a separate person from God as He is of these other persons.
14. Two Persons are referred to many times in the New Testament (Mt. 11:27; Lk. 23:46; Jn. 1:1-2,18; 5:19-20; 14:1-9; 16:15; 17:3,10; Acts 2:38-39; 3:13-26; Php. 2:5-11; Eph. 3:5; Col. 1:5; 2Th. 2:16-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 20:6; 22:3).
15. Two and three Persons are mentioned in the introductions to New Testament books (Rom. 1:1-4,7; 1Cor. 1:3; Jas. 1:1; 1Pet. 1:1-3; 2Jn. 1:3; Rev. 1:1-6; etc.).
16. God is the head of Christ and thus greater than He in position (1Cor. 3:23; 11:3; 1Chr. 29:11; Jn. 14:28).
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day The Trinity is the most complex being in the universe. There’s nothing like the Trinity. God himself says many times in Scripture “who will you compare Me too?“ Jesus plays various roles depending on who he is with on earth or in heaven. Son, Savior, King, sacrifice, Lamb, Lion, Friend, heavenly warrior…
None of the persons of the Trinity are greater in essence than the other. Said another way, all are equal in power, knowledge, presence, etc.
The way in which the father is greater than Jesus the Son is in the role that he plays.
Ross Tucker
Neil Steven Lawrence Lots of words and assertions, with zero scriptural support. Typical Trinitarian.
Varnel Watson
Ross Tucker how do you mean -0 scripture?
I have given you 89 solid theological points that prove the Trinity ALL accompanied and explained via hundreds of BIBLE verse I specifically pointed 3-4 points to your previous question Are you able to answer them?
the witness paradigm you present is highly invalid Your Ex/Lev scripture is OUT of context The two witnesses have to be PERSONS not multiple personality divinity as you propose
Two Persons are referred to many times in the New Testament (Mt. 11:27; Lk. 23:46; Jn. 1:1-2,18; 5:19-20; 14:1-9; 16:15; 17:3,10; Acts 2:38-39; 3:13-26; Php. 2:5-11; Eph. 3:5; Col. 1:5; 2Th. 2:16-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 20:6; 22:3).
Ross Tucker
Troy Day You’ve given zero scriptural evidence of any Trinity.
Varnel Watson
Ross Tucker You can prove that by going through my list with hundreds of Scriptures and disprove them one by one if you’d like as presented solid evidence But until then I have hundreds of Scriptures proving the Trinity and you have 0 arguments against them That’s how it works my friend
Ross Tucker
Troy Day You’re bluffing, and I’m calling it for what it is–a bluff. You’ve given zero scriptures that support any Trinitarian concepts.
Varnel Watson
Ross Tucker so you admit you are out of ammo I am calling you out on each verse I posted 10-4
Ross Tucker
Troy Day I’ve seen no scriptural proof come from you.
Varnel Watson
Ross Tucker wow that is just not true Look at my comments above Do I need to repeat them all?
Ross Tucker
Troy Day I see zero scriptural proof in your posts
Steve Losee
amen!
Varnel Watson
indeed
Jon Sellers
I agree with the Trinity. It is clear in scripture. However, it does not mean we can argue for God having a body, soul and spirit. Here is the quote from Dake. It is anthropormorphic. It ascribes to God what he sees in man.
What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the same sense each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul, and spirit. We mean by body, whether a spirit body or a flesh body, the house for the indwelling of the personal soul and spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows.
Chris Westerman
https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/100-scriptural-arguments-for-the-unitarian-faith