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50 Reasons Why I Don’t Drink Alcohol #ourCOG #ToT
1. I can’t be sober-minded if I’m not sober.
2. Alcohol has an assignment: destruction.
3. Alcohol is a depressant. Anything that depresses should be avoided at all costs…
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:48 PM]
50 reasons why I don’t become intoxicated would be biblically Kosher.
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:48 PM]
there’s no difference – just stop and police officer and ask after you’ve been drinking
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:48 PM]
Im not politically or religiously correct.
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:50 PM]
they will not ask you that – just to walk a straight line to ticket you for no difference between drinking and intoxication 🙂
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:50 PM]
neither was Jesus on the subject.
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:50 PM]
but He never got pulled over by the police now did He?
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:52 PM]
If a person cant walk the line after a cup of wine then they should never drive or drink.
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:52 PM]
His disciples did. Acts 2 LOL
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:53 PM]
and I think when one drinks and preaches he’s already walking a thin line Alan N Carla Smith Charles Page
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:53 PM]
Eactually
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:54 PM]
there’s everything wrong with having a cup of wine with your meal – social drinking is a sin
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 8:54 PM]
Jesus Is not a sinner
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:55 PM]
Jesus turned his wine out of water. You buy yours in the store … and if you believe Jesus turned your water into wine, you just had a bit too much… NEXT! Tom Steele
Corey Forsyth [01/18/2016 8:57 PM]
My understanding is that the alcoholic content of wine in Jesus’ was significantly diluted compared to today. The comparison was something like 28 cups of biblical wine equals the alcoholic content of 2 margaritas?
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 8:58 PM]
Corey Forsyth you’re comparing grapes to margaritas (a.k.a. daisies) 🙂
Charles Page [01/18/2016 9:05 PM]
John Kissinger, Peter A Vandever would call this thread “legalistic” and I would agree with Peter. You can have internal secret holiness with or without the wine!
Curtis Fenison [01/18/2016 9:06 PM]
Grape juice turns to wine (4-5) % by 3rd day. That’s called new wine. But it does not taste as good as aged. Jesus made the best wine. The people said it was. We make our own wine for the Lords supper and other often infirmities.
John Conger [01/18/2016 9:08 PM]
Sounds like you’re equating drinking and drunkenness to fit your ideology . Don’t be scared to look at it objectively 🙂
Charles Page [01/18/2016 9:10 PM]
as long as he doesn’t drink to excess and in moderation.
Tom Steele [01/18/2016 9:11 PM]
This is a good resource for this topic, it was written in the late 1800’s. Perhaps it was a strong influence toward prohibition in the United States that went from 1920-1933, which was at least in part a result of pressure from a movement to go dry led by Protestants and Political Progressives. There are good word studies in it that you might not find many other places. Like most classic works, a lot of study went into this resource. http://www.amazon.com/The-Temperance-Bible-Commentary-Exposition-Reformation/dp/1146285868
Jimmy Humphrey [01/18/2016 9:13 PM]
I think it’s funny how people try to say that the alcohol content of the wine back then was very low. Yet Paul had to write a letter to the Corinthians to stop getting drunk at the Lords Supper. Ugh… My head hurts just thinking about the bad scholarship and reasoning skills people use when talking about wine from those days to try and fit their preconceived theology. Jesus drank wine, and he drank enough for the Pharisees to accuse him of being a drunk.
Ben Wilson [01/18/2016 9:14 PM]
Okay, let’s see. . . .28 cups == 7 quarts == 1 3/4 gallons.
Two normal sized margaritas for the average size man (150 pounds) in two hours will only get his blood alcohol level to. . . .0.038%, which is about half the level to be found legal intoxicated. I takes about three margaritas in three hours to get close to the legal intoxication level of 0.075%.
Now if the wine in Jesus day indeed have the alcohol content as claimed by Corey, than to get the same amount of alcohol to be legally intoxicated, someone would have had to drink about two and one-half gallons of wine. . . in three hours.
Which means that not many people would have been getting drunk on that wine. . . in spite of it apparently being a common practice at wedding parties.
Corey, I’m not convinced you know what you are talking about. . . .
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 9:17 PM]
You cannot look at drinking vs drunkenness if you are in love with wine John Conger
Charles Page [01/18/2016 9:18 PM]
John Kissinger, I don’t think you know what you are talking about! You are just old fashion CoG!!!
John Kissinger [01/18/2016 9:20 PM]
Charles Page you got hang on the practical commitments didnt you 🙂 Timothy Carter
Varnel Watson
So lets face the real problem why people refuse holiness and want, wish, long, have any desire to drink. It is called #addiction http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/tot-75-scripture-warnings-against-drinking-of-alcohol/
Emanuel Rodriguez
Your scriptures condemn drunkenness, there’s no need to list texts with no context or proper exegesis. I can provide a list of texts approving of alcohol consumption as well. It doesn’t help the cause
Emanuel Rodriguez
And I say that with respect to your position.
Emanuel Rodriguez
As I stated earlier, this isn’t a matter of drinking or not drinking. This is a matter of taking scripture beyond what it commands
Joseph D. Absher
When you get the real baptism you got new wine. Plenty of joy and comfort. And you don’t care if anybody likes you. Not your friends or your family. And you don’t have wait in line at the liquor store at 9 am with the bums to get it.
I heard a preacher once, I think it’s true too, he said if you don’t like getting your toes stepped on get them out of the aisle.
Joseph D. Absher
I just preached on this Saturday at the rehab, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Proverbs 20:1. These guys that have never read the Bible. They quietly nodded their heads they knew it was true. But how is it the Christian in the full armour of God filled with the spirit of wisdom and revelation don’t.
Varnel Watson
Henry Volk FB is being funny with the picture thumbs again
Henry Volk
It’s a sign from God to be like Putin and drink some vodka. ?
Varnel Watson
You probably meant to be nothing like Putin
Henry Volk
Nyet ?
Stan Wayne
All fine – no scripture for total abstinence – it’s a choice right?
Louise Cummings
In the Bible it’s called wine while still on vine. Some people are deceived on wine.
Ben Wilson
I had no idea you could get drunk eating grapes from the vine. . . .
Louise Cummings
Ben Wilson you can’t. That’s why I’m saying people saying that The Lords Supper was an alcoholic drink because they said it was wine. It could have been just juice from the vine. I’m not trying to take away from the Bible. But I don’t believe The Lord turned water into an alcoholic drink. People I think use excuses to get drunk. When the Bible says be my drunk with wine , wherein is excess. But be filled with the Spirit.
Varnel Watson
Matthew 26:29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” ~Jesus
Jeanette Elizondo
AMEN !! AMEN !!!
Varnel Watson
Like Steve Phifer just wrote
There is a sad debate going on in Christian circles where the old norm was “teetotalism” No alcohol at all. The debate refers to drinking in the Bible so it can’t be wrong, right? To me it is not a biblical issue; it is a wisdom issue. This presentation supports my position: “Alcohol is poison.”
Emanuel Rodriguez
Tread lightly,
*Drunkenness is explicitly prohibited, therefore drunkenness is sin
*Alcohol is not prohibited, therefore alcohol consumption is not sin
Conclusion,
Abstinence is a choice, use wisdom
Steve Phifer
What would wisdom demand of the use of poison? Moderation?
Emanuel Rodriguez
It isn’t poison until the liver cannot metabolize it causing drunkenness. That’s why it is important to tread lightly. We should be careful not to call sin what God doesn’t call sin, that is sinful on its own
Steve Phifer
Did you watch the original video from a non-Christian, scientific source? It concluded with the statement. “Alcohol is poison.” Look at its effect on this world! Poison it is, small amounts, or large.
Steve Phifer
Is the buzz you get from it worth supporting this wholesale destruction?
Emanuel Rodriguez
Steve Phifer yours is an argument from emotion and an appeal to the secular majority.
We cannot judge a matter based on the morality of the world, we have to look at the matter scripturally only.
Steve Phifer
How can one see this destruction and waste without being moved? Desensitized, I suppose. I appeal to my brothers and sisters in Christ. I expect no discernment from the secular majority. No one drinks alone. Every drink is done in the company of the entire industry of intoxication. “It’s a quarter to three, no one in the place but just you and, me. Set ’em up Joe…”
Emanuel Rodriguez
Steve Phifer appeal to scripture
Steve Phifer
Look at scripture in the light of the modern/postmodern world rather than through the eyes of the ancient world. A drunk man leading a burrow is different from a drunk man driving a truck. The scriptures say we should understand the times. We need discernment to see the world we have now is not the same one Jesus had when He changed water into wine. There is an intoxication industry that I sincerely believe neither He nor His disciples would support. Can it be that Christians want to drink (does anyone drink under duress before it becomes a habit?) so they use Scripture to justify it? Is it time for the truth of Ephesians to come to the fore to Pentecostals Eph 5:18-19
“And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit…” Do we choose intoxicants rather than the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? I see everything at risk and nothing to be gained except a self-centered buzz.
Emanuel Rodriguez
Steve Phifer Eph 5:18-19 prohibits drunkenness as I indicated earlier.
Steve Phifer
In a strict sense, yes. But in this day and age, wisdom would dictate to me to avoid poison altogether. “Excess” or “dissipation” the word used in the NKJ, means for a soldier to get out of step, out of line. If the Spirit is calling us to be sober, we take a step out of line when we take the first drink.
Eric Phillips
And that is the point Steve Phifer….”to you” so abstain for yourself…but don’t make a doctrine out of “to you” “for me”….
Steve Phifer
No doctrine–an appeal to your heart for the lost.
Emanuel Rodriguez
Steve Phifer you are equating the consumption of alcohol with drunkenness. You are not drunk with you “take the first drink”. Be careful not to add to the instruction of scripture less you add to the letter of the law.
Also equating alcohol with poison is dangerous as God never declared alcohol to be poison
Eric Phillips
Exactly. I was typing that at the same time Emanuel Rodriguez.
Anything in excess can be sinful…
Emanuel Rodriguez
I don’t want my sentiments to be received as a defense for alcohol, the greater issue here goes beyond alcohol and bleeds into other scriptural issues as appealing to culture can often go contrary to scripture
Steve Phifer
Let me get this straight…I am dangerous? When alcohol is wreaking destruction in this land and now in the church, I am dangerous? By definition, “the first drink” is an opening to the next one.
Emanuel Rodriguez
Steve Phifer again, you are appealing to emotion and the secular majority. If alcohol is wreaking havoc in your church you do have the responsibility (assuming you are an Elder or Pastor) to discipline them and lead them in abstinence and sobriety but this is not the blanket circumstance.
You must not allow those circumstances to take authority over scripture
Steve Phifer
Emanuel Rodriguez My primary field is worship renewal in which I consistently warn against the exaltation of culture over Scripture. I teach that the church should be a holy counterculture, not a christianized version of the culture. My position on alcohol is consistent with that, drawing upon biblical principles for present day application.
Eric Phillips
https://blog.heartsupport.com/the-curious-case-of-christians-and-alcohol-527269707e13
Eric Phillips
Steve Phifer I respect your opinion and your heart. I was raised this way and believed and taught the same way you do for years.
The problem I have as a student of history, the Bible and Christianity is that I would have to suspend logic and discount many Bible scriptures, historical facts and just plain ol’ common sense at this point in my life.to agree with you.
I am not pro alcohol in any sense….I am pro not adding to or taking away from what the Bible clearly states.
Martin Luther drank, as an American we alwayd talk about our Christian heritage…the Pilgrims, the Puritans, George Washington….well they all drank….so which is it?
We either have to say Christians can drink or stop saying we have a Christian foundation in this country if drinkers are sinners.
You can’t have it both ways.
Emanuel Rodriguez
Eric Phillips The early western prohibition is really what has influenced the American Evangelicalism’s view on alcohol. As eastern churches don’t really wrestle with this issue so much
Eric Phillips
Yes which did not begin in earnest until the 1800’s. That means for over 1800 years this wasn’t an issue anywhere on the globe. Its not just Eastern churches who who do not struggle with this, it is mostly just American churches who make this an issue since it started in the Methodist movement and most American denominations trace their roots back to Methodism.
Read the article I posted above it gives the quick version of the temperance movement in the US it’s very interesting.
Steve Phifer
Eric Phillips Finally got a chance to read this article. Interesting history and a disturbing prognosis. In relations between believers of different traditions, we must respect the convictions of our brothers and sisters: We can agree on the prohibition of intoxication. In this light, my convictions as a teetotaler are as valid as those of the social drinker. However, within a fellowship based in Holiness/Pentecostal tradition, a strong case can be made for abstinence based, if not on direct Scriptural prohibition, at least on the biblical principle of spiritual discernment. This country is plagued by industries of intoxication: alcohol, drugs, gambling, and pornography. A church taking a public stand against these things by preaching abstinence should not be subject to persecution by their brothers and sisters who choose a different route.
Link Hudson
Drunkenness is condemned, but many righteous people in the Bible drank in moderation. Jesus even said to the disciples ‘Drnk ye all of it’.
Steve Phifer
Link Hudson True, but ancient times were not the same as these times. As I said before, a drunk leading a burrow is not the same as a drunk driving a truck.
Link Hudson
Steve Phifer I am not saying anyone should ever be drunk, or drink in moderation and then drive. I’m not a social drink. I suspect most people who condemn all drinking have drunk more than I have. I have had alcohol in cough medicine and communion for the most part.
Joseph D. Absher
We actually have a “progressive” church here in Milwaukee called “Brew City Church”
Varnel Watson
surely they are getting progressively sanctified in it
Joseph D. Absher
I visited twice. I think they gave up on repentance.
Varnel Watson
most progressively sanctification folk do that
Steve Phifer
Never said drinkers were sinners. My education in worship renewal has taken me far beyond the boundaries of the Pentecostal/Holiness point of view. I am certainly aware of the history of drinking and the Reformation. I have dear brothers and sisters who do not share my views and I treasure them in my life. I have never drank alcohol beyond that found in medicine and in Holy Communion with my Anglican friends. So, the benefits of drinking elude me. All I can see is the destruction caused by the intoxication industry in the modern/postmodern age. I fear the dissipation warned of in Eph with alcohol and prefer the refreshment of the Spirit encouraged in that passage. There will be an outpouring of the Spirit in the Last Days and also a great falling away. I analyze things from the viewpoint of that dichotomy: is this of the Outpouring or the falling away? Seems the intoxication industry has more to do with the falling away than the Outpouring.
Varnel Watson
DO not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Link Hudson
Jesus said, “Drink ye all of it.” Does transubstantiation fit better with a teetotaler view on the subject?
Steve Phifer
In John 6, Jesus made it clear that the work of God is to believe. Eating and drinking are symbols of believing.
Link Hudson
Steve Phifer Belief in transubstantiation would make the contents of the cup not wine anymore, consistent with teetotalerism at least.
Varnel Watson
you just equated eucharistia with common social drinking – wow
Varnel Watson
Unfortunately for you my young friend Emanuel I have had the unfortunate pleasure to exegete (for a grade) ALL NT passages dealing with alcohol, drinking, etc. and I will have the great pleasure to introduce you to all my findings IF you or anyone in this group dare debate on the topic 🙂 There are other, much more knowledgeable than myself, Pentecostal scholars which you should consult on the topic prior. One of them is DR. FRENCH L. ARRINGTON on THE BIBLE AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, BEER, WINE, LIQUORS making a fine case for TOTAL ABSTINENCE. Take few minutes and indulge yourself in some fine scholarship theology proper {you are welcome} http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/dr-french-l-arrington-the-bible-and-alcoholic-beverages-beer-wine-liquors-and-total-abstinence/
Emanuel Rodriguez
See my reply on the new thread. I’m just pleading that you be careful with adding to the letter of the law
Varnel Watson
I probably dont need it. If you take your time to read the article in its entarity you will reach the case made against Christians drinking
Emanuel Rodriguez
I did read the article, hence my rebuttal. I am pleading with you, I understand your position on abstinence and I take no issue against it. I am asking you to be very careful how you respond as you are potentially blaspheming by rebuking the scriptures. Consider my response
Varnel Watson
Your rebuttal is not at the same level. Simply repeating your thesis is not a rebuttal yet. Neither have you show a worthy response or any Scriptural foundation – just empty threat. If I chose to respond to you the same way you just did I can simply say be careful not to go to hell for drinking
Emanuel Rodriguez
Troy Day read the scriptures on the article as I have already read the scriptures expressed in yours. See that there is a difference in light of the very scriptures; drunkenness is prohibited, alcohol is not. Abstinence is OK, calling alcohol sin is NOT. They are all an offense
Eric Phillips
Troy Day your arrogance and condescension may need to be addressed in your private personal prayer time.
You can be young and intelligent, you probably would have had a hard time learning from Christ since he was only 33 at his death.
You can also be old and bullheaded and incapable of dialogue.
You accuse Emmauel of a “threat” which I do not see…the only threat I see is where you threaten anyone who “dares” to debate this topic with your findings. I thought this was a page for discussion of topics like these?
Varnel Watson
Are we still discussing the theology of Dr. Arrington’s article or you are off to a personal attack?
Eric Phillips
Lol pot meet kettle you are the one who constantly attacks anyone who does not agree with you. I have read it time and time again in your posts to others.
As for the article there is no new ground covered here, I have read and heard this for 41 years of my life.
He does what all teetotalers do…equates drinking with drunkeness. Sites the most extreme cases of out of control behavior while never mentioning the millions worldwide who demonstrate self control while having a single glass of wine with dinner.
Its like eating Troy..it’s not wrong to eat but it’s gluttony to over indulge.
Randal W Deese
I totally disagree with Novel Doctrine of abstinence of Dr. French.
Link Hudson
What were Jesus and the apostles’ reasons for drinking alcohol?
Varnel Watson
Link Eric Phillips Doesnt your Church of God membership exhort well defined Practical Commitments against any kind of drinking to all its members? How can you drink and be a cog member at the same time? Doesnt drinking automatically revoke your membership? Pastor Ed David probably delat with members like that not one or two times
David Lewayne Porter
For the record;:
I counsel against drunkenness and youthful lust.
That is in accordance with the entirety of Scripture.
David Lewayne Porter
I counsel against anything that will entrap an individual on a personal level, that includes examining their past temptations.
David Lewayne Porter
I am personally against alcohol as a drink.
But for someone to say they are a teetotaler,,
I need to examine their kitchen and medicine cabinet.
Joseph D. Absher
Don’t forget under the sink. We used to a have a mason jar down there. For “medicinal purposes”
Varnel Watson
Does this mean you also counsel against occasional / social drinking and sex or they are OK? David Lewayne Porter
Eric Phillips
Troy Day if you read what I said, I never said whether I drink or do not drink…Further I stated I am not encouraging anyone else to drink or violate their conscience.
I didn’t know you worked for the COG violation enforcement brigade? Next time I speak to Bishop Hill I will ask him how this new apparent pilot program your heading up Troy is working!
Don’t worry about my membership the last time I checked I was A OK with the NRA!
David Lewayne Porter
I counsel against anything that will entrap an individual on a personal level, that includes examining their past temptations.
David Lewayne Porter
I know teetotalers that have more pressing and real issues than alcohol use or the lack there of.
Eric Phillips
You and I both David Lewayne Porter