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Should women preach in church?
Louise Cummings
Yes.
Ray E Horton
Yes.
Jeremy Rice
Fine with me . Preach it . Sista
Ray E Horton
Good article that addresses the subject:
Why Certain Words Are Left Out Of Our English Bibles
May 23, 2019 by Keith Giles
“The more I study the Bible, the more concerned I am with how translators have altered the texts to serve their own agendas.
“Most Christians are unaware of the fact that this has gone on for centuries, and that some of these intentional mistranslations are intended to prevent people from knowing what the Scriptures actually teach on certain topics.
“For example: For several hundred years Bible translators obscured the true identity of Junia in the New Testament because Paul called Junia ‘outstanding among the Apostles’ and they weren’t happy with the fact that Junia was a female. So, to hide this from the masses, the Scriptures were used to give Junia a sex change and turn her into a male.
“Another example is in 1 Timothy 3:11 where Paul [or Pseudo-Paul] is giving guidelines for Overseers and Deacons in the Church. Most English translations render the sentence like this:
“’Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.’
“Written this way, the passage appears to be providing a guideline for how the wife of the Deacon should behave. However, the word here is not the usual word for ‘wife’ in the Greek. It’s actually the word for ‘women’ which means the passage is more accurately translated as:
“’In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.’
“Meaning, the women, or female, deacons should be evaluated ‘in the same way’ as the male deacons.
“How do we know this is more accurate? Because all throughout the New Testament we see female deacons like Lydia, Phoebe, Dorcas, and others who are called ‘deacons’ (or ‘diakonus’) which simply means ‘servant’ in the Greek.
“Another example of how certain words were either left out of our Bibles or changed to serve an agenda, is found in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 where Paul appears to say that ‘women should be silent in the church’ and that ‘women should not be allowed to speak as the Law says’ and worse yet, that ‘it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.’
“The problem with this is that it totally contradicts everything that Paul has already said in this very same letter about how women should prophesy and how everyone should participate together in the Body of Christ.
“What’s more, Paul appears to appeal to the Law for instruction – something he spends a lot of time arguing against in his other letters – and even more concerning is the fact that the Law NEVER says that ‘women should not be allowed to speak.’
“Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees, by his own admission. How could he have made such a drastic mistake about what the Law said about women being silent?
“Answer: He didn’t.
“How do we know this? Because there is a word missing in most English translations in the very next verse after this section. The word is an exclamation which simply says: ‘What?!’
And following that exclamation, Paul follows up with this:
“’Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.’
“So, what is actually going on here is that Paul is quoting something the Corinthians had written to him in a previous letter (which Paul alludes to in this same epistle), and is responding negatively to their statements – not expressing his own views.
“Another way we know that Paul is not silencing women in this passage is that, as we said, the Law never taught that women should not be allowed to speak. But, the Talmud did.
“’The silencing of women was a Jewish ordinance. Women were not permitted to speak in the assembly or even to ask questions. The rabbis taught that a woman should know nothing but the use of her distaff.’ [See ‘What’s With Paul And Women?’ by Jon Zens]
“Josephus, a Jewish historian, asserted that ‘the woman, says the law, is in all things inferior to a man. Let her accordingly be submissive.’
“The Talmud clearly affirms the silence of females:
“’A woman’s voice is prohibited because it is sexually provocative’ (Talmud, Berachot 24a).
“’Women are sexually seductive, mentally inferior, socially embarrassing, and spiritually separated from the law of Moses; therefore, let them be silent’ (summary of Talmudic sayings).
“The Talmud Called the Voice of a Woman ‘Shameful.’
“’It is a shame for a woman to let her voice be heard among men’ (Talmud, Tractate Kiddushin)
“’The voice of a woman is filthy nakedness’ (Talmud, Berachot Kiddushin)
So, it’s the Talmud, not Paul, who tries to silence women. Paul’s own writings were quite egalitarian when left alone and not altered by translators who had an axe to grind against women.
Want to know another place where a word was left out of our English translations of Scripture in order to advance an agenda?
Let’s look at Philippians 2:10-11:
“’…that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.’
“Now, many of us are well-acquainted with this verse of scripture. But what most of us don’t know – because our English translations leave something out – is that the word ‘gladly’ is omitted from the passage.
“Why is that significant? Because without the word ‘gladly’ in this sentence, it’s very easy to teach that unrepentant sinners will one day bow their knees under compulsion and confess that Christ is Lord under protest, just before they get tossed into the lake of fire.
“However, if you include the missing word it reads like this:
“’that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow….and every tongue should GLADLY confess that Jesus Christ is Lord..’
“The word for confess used here in the Greek is: exomologeō
“This word is translated as: ‘to acknowledge openly and joyfully’
“But, if you leave off the ‘joyful’ and ‘open’ part of the statement, you make it easier to suggest that God will eventually burn some of His children in the Lake of Fire for all eternity. Otherwise, you have to wrestle with the fact that this verse says that one day ‘EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue will JOYFULLY confess that Jesus Christ is Lord’ and when paired with Paul’s other statement in Romans 10:9 that all who confess Jesus as Lord will be saved, you have quite a problem on your hands if you hope to drive home your doctrine of Eternal Suffering.
“This is not an exhaustive list of verses in our English Bibles that have left words out on purpose to advance an agenda. We’ve not even started to scratch the surface.
“But the point I want to make is that we cannot simply open our English Bibles and point to a verse and say ‘The Bible clearly says…’ because our Bibles are not as honest or as accurate as we might want them to be.
“If you’re curious about this topic, I’d suggest reading my latest book ‘Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible.’
“If nothing else, be careful what you believe if it’s based on what your English translation says. There’s a good chance the Bible really doesn’t say what you think it says.
**
“Keith Giles was formerly a licensed and ordained minister who walked away from organized church 11 years ago, to start a home fellowship that gave away 100% of the offering to the poor in the community. Today, He and his wife live in Meridian, Idaho, awaiting their next adventure.”
Varnel Watson
wrong post? shouldnt this be under the NT article ?
Ray E Horton
It made references to women in the church.
Varnel Watson
IMO SBaptists just cut their only standing leg off but I will let some bapticostals comment more Link Hudson Joe Absher
Joe Absher
..good reading
Louise Cummings
Yes.
Joshwa Bedford
Yes they should. Paul was addressing specific situations in the Corinthian church and in Timothy’s church. It was a cultural thing not a theological thing. Breaks my heart when people think women should be silenced. If the woman is speaking Heresy, deal with it like you would the man. If she is not preaching heresy let her preach and let Christ preach through her.
Link Hudson
I heard a sermon along those lines last week. Something about the hermeneutic approach didnot sit well with me, similar yo what LGBT apologists use in some ways.
We were also led to believe the modesty verses just meant do not dress like a prostitute. If 1st century married Greek women did not want to dress nice they may have been a fundamentally different type of human being than those who exist today.
Arguing that since interpreters want to do away with literal interpretation and applucation of restriction of gold and pearls without considering that modern evangelicals may be too far on the left on this seems faulty logic. “You don’t follow this verse literally so we do not have to follow that one literally” is a flawed approach.
Paul appealed to the garden and Adam and Eve and did not mention Attend priests like the preacher did last week. Assuming it had to do with Artemis priesteses seems to be undue eisegesis. Pointing out that they may have had a bit of a ‘feminist’ thread in their culture as we have in ours may be a valid point.
The Bible gives us examples of women prophets and teaches that women will prophesy. Jesus told a woman to tell the disciples of His resurrection. We should take this into account. A broad “It was just culture” take on scripture can lead to all kinds of immorality like we see with acceptance of LGBT among liberals.
Varnel Watson
must be some Link Hudson bapticostal church
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson would it be all right with you if Paula White preaches in the White house instead of a church Even Charles Page may approve of that wholeheartedly
John Wilson
If your authority is Scripture: NO (1 Tim 2:11-14).
If your authority is anything else: STILL NO. Scripture still has final authority, whether you submit to it or not.
Allan Boyd
No
Oulle Benjamins
I don’t know
Jeanette Elizondo
YES !
RichardAnna Boyce
How do you stop them when God gives them the message and they are the Pastora?
Varnel Watson
many organizations have done it RichardAnna Boyce
RichardAnna Boyce
they simply start their own independent church, with hopefully their husband or father, being their elder, or associate pastor.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce and what follows next
RichardAnna Boyce
If they are starting a Free Grace Pentecostal church then their followers are hearing independent truth (reading the Bible for all its worth – Gordon Fee) and not denominational bias. We are rewarded in the Millennium for being faithful to Holy Spirit not denominations.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce there is NO Free Grace Pentecostal churches They are mainly baptist calvinist
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day i am a n elder of a Free Grace Pentecostal church in Philippines. We agree with Creflo Dollar’s pentecostal grace teaching. We are non denominational, neither calvinistic nor armenian, but Read the Bible for all its Worth by Gordon Fee.
Varnel Watson
Creflo Dollar? – not the best choice here
Rome Meade
RichardAnna Boyce You’re Free Grace Pentecostal but are independent? What are your beliefs? There’s no such thing as independent. ?
Louise Cummings
Yes.
Susan Collins
Yes….Women preach all the time in various places
Louise Cummings
On. The day of Pentecost. 120 men women and I suppose children.They were all gathered together in the Upper Room, until The Holy Ghost came. The Inle says they All were filled with the Holy Spirit. The Bible said they all would Speak In Other languages , or in known Tongues. On His servants and hand maidens. He would pour out of His Spirit , and they would prophecy. I don’t recall if Hr said Church or just where ever led.
Jireh D Hormann
Everything except lead Pastor. God will still be glorified even if it is out of order, but He did create an order for a reason.
Louise Cummings
You remember in Like 3;35-36. Where Anna was a widow. And never left Temple day or night. She was a Prophetess. Coming to Mary. When she carried her baby Jesus to the Temple. And when she coming to Mary, Gave thanks to all who had been looking forward. To the Redemption of Jerusalem.
Richard Shelton
They have to when men won’t!
Louise Cummings
There was a man present in the Temple. Also. I think he was the first to hold Baby Jesus. He saw them bringing the baby Jesus. He had been praying that he would get to see the one who was to deliver Jerusalem. When he saw Jesus in Mary’s arms. The Spirit had revealed to him , when he first saw Him. This is the one. So he held Jesus in his arms. He prayed and said. Now I can depart in peace. Because my eyes has seen. The Salvation of the Lord. I would open my Bible. To get the exact Word.
Salvatore Tropea Sr
Galatian 3:28 says “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Equality is then everyone’s status who belongs to the Kingdom of God. God wants to use everyone to the full of their abilities for Him and He even used a donkey to speak for him on one occasion! If this questions arises from Paul saying “for they are not permitted to speak;” 1 Corinthians 14:34, from the context I would say when he added “let them ask their own husbands at home” is talking about relational conversations, not ministerial gifts. Also the Bible is not teaching error on any count for at that time, humanity treated women as property and they had little to say but that would change AD, in the years of our Lord. (This is my opinion)
David Tripp
That is up to theLord No one Else
Andrew Drew Hiatt
Yes if God does not raise up a pastor. We have to look at the context of the apostle Paul’s words when it comes to making a decision about women speaking in church. I know there is a lot of heated debate concerning this topic but we must compare not just one part of the Bible but every part. Line upon line, and precept upon precept. Here a little, there a little.
Varnel Watson
WHAT is all this amounting to? Richard Shelton
Steven Wise
If they PREACH Bible yes
George Hartwell
Each one bring a word, a hymn, a prophecy.
Varnel Watson
so the BIBLE says indeed …
Mark D Knight
Dear Lord help us this conversation is getting old!
Rome Meade
Mark D Knight Right!? Move along already. ?
Varnel Watson
Rome Meade its not just a woman issue to ignore
Isara Mo
JESUS said YES why are you men trying to pin down ladies to the Mosaic and Pauline theologies?
What does this scripture mean?
//And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God PERSONS from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests TO SERVE OUR GOD , and they will reign on the earth.”
Revelation 5:9-10 NIV
//
God said in the last days He will pour His Spirit on his servants male and female(Read Joel)..
So what’s all this fuss?
I. Know women who are really annointed and serve the Lord in. Sprit and TRUTH and of men with collars who teach and preach mediocre and superfluous spirituality..
The soul or spirit has no gender at all and we don’t serve God with our beards or muscles… We serve the Lord God with our hearts..
Jared Cheshire
Isara Mo actually Paul didn’t teach that women shouldn’t preach. That is a misrepresentation of what he was saying when he addressed a specific problem. Also the word silence is a mistranslation of the Greek in his admonition.
Isara Mo
Jared Cheshire
Teach me plse
Jared Cheshire
Isara Mo above is an incomplete study on the scripture in question.
Isara Mo
Jared Cheshire
Thanks
Varnel Watson
Jared Cheshire does not open
Jared Cheshire
Troy Day I will check. It is supposed to be public.
Varnel Watson
Jared Cheshire seems an incomplete PDF or so
Jared Cheshire
Troy Day it is shareable. And yes it is incomplete. I still need to do a lot of work on it. The basic principles are there however.
Jared Cheshire
Can you see all 23 pages now?
Steve Losee
nobody should “preach in church”; that’s for outside, to unbelievers. Inside, we need to be taught, not preached at.
Ray E Horton
Actually, preaching is for both. Believers need teaching, but motivational preaching can get complacent believers moving.
Varnel Watson
Ray E Horton preaching if for preachers
evangelism is for sinners
teaching is for believers
Jerry Nelson
Steve Losee
David Tripp
Yes they should
Jerry Nelson
Steve Losee Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Sounds like we need all of the 5 fold ministry gifts in the church. All of the ministry gifts are a gift from God for his body the Church!
Blessings ????
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo Ray E Horton has told us about many sinners in the church that should be preached to http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/evangelizing-christians-ray-e-horton/
Jevan Little
If preaching is a form of prophesying then yes
Jared Cheshire
Jevan Little if you look in the original languages of the Bible the word for prophesying and preaching are the same. Preaching is prophesying. Most people view prophecy as merely foretelling of future events. However prophesying can be encouragement, edification, instruction, correction, and revelation of test mysteries, etc. If Paul had actually forbade women from preaching, he would have been in violation of Joel 2:28 and Peter in Acts 2:17. Most people completely misunderstand the intent of Paul’s admonition for women to keep silent in church. It was for a specific situation and the word silence was it mistranslation. The actual meaning of the Greek word is calmness not silence. It was an admonition against hysterics and disruption in the church.
Varnel Watson
Jared Cheshire I was gonna mention they both mean TO PROCLAIM
Jared Cheshire
Troy Day agreed. To proclaim as a messenger in the context we are using it.
Varnel Watson
what else would preaching be Jevan Little
Shannel Taylor
Should men preach in church?
Varnel Watson
only if they are saved Joe Absher Isara Mo
Shannel Taylor
Troy Day right and now you have the answer to the 1st question.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Not really..
Check out this //
mercenary
/ˈməːsɪn(ə)ri/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.
Similar:
money-oriented
grasping
greedy
acquisitive
avaricious
covetous
rapacious
bribable
venal
materialistic
money-grubbing..
2.a professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
mercenaries..preachers and teachers neednt be saved
James P. White
It should be based on the gifts , talents, and abilities of the person
Joyce Frazier
I will
Peter Nilsen
What does the Word say ?
Varnel Watson
what does it say to you? Peter Nilsen
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo come again ?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Am in the middle of a bustling street right now but will come..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo you are what?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Was very busy in the afternoon so couldn’t post anything..
I was in the middle of a very busy street with car honks and hawkers crows.. Noisome
Isara Mo
Troy Day
I think we shouldn’t argue with God about women. My wife accepted the Lord ten years before me and I had seen her deliver some macho men if demons.. The Lord has honored her so why try to discourage a lady from serving the Lord..
Preaching is just part of serving. I think the people who say ladies shouldn’t preach are sinners because when they see a lady preach they focus on her face and voice and not the message and she wears these tight trousers and a low cleavage blouse these guys just lose their networks.
Solution.. Stop them climbing the podium..(their view)
What I have received from the Most Higb(not mortal men like Troy and his Bible College is”.. Let my daughters preach and teach… *
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo and I am never too busty for any of yall Joe Absher
Joe Absher
well a phone is distracting and to conspicuous in some places . blessingz
Isara Mo
The male only priesthood is found in most major world RELIGIONS.. including JUDAISM….and some Christian denominations..
Were there female and males in Acts when the Holy Spirit descended on the 120?.
I think we have a problem of copy pasting answers without checking the Scriptures as the Beroyans
Isara Mo
They all joined together constantly in prayer, ALONG with the WOMEN and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
Acts 1:14 NIV
Isara Mo
When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:1 NIV
//
Who were together?. The men and the women..
Isara Mo
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest ON EACH of THEM. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
Acts 2:3-4 NIV
Isara Mo
If anointing is the manifest power of God on a thing or person (a woman is a person also) for the purposes of God then ALL THE 120 were annointed….. including the women..
Of what use was the anointing?.
To wash babies diapers..?
Varnel Watson
IF a woman is anointed by GOD – who can stop that?
Jared Cheshire
Troy Day well God does have a proper order.
Ephesians 5:23
1 Corinthians 11:3
However, if a woman is called of God, her husband wouldn’t stop her, but rather help her if he is a true man of God.
Isara Mo
Troy Day
The Un annointed are the noisy ones