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Peter A Vandever | PentecostalTheology.com
Digging deeper into discipleship cults, G12 churches are of the most dangerous of all of them. They prey on the poor in less developed countries like South America and the Philippines.
John Kissinger [08/28/2015 7:17 AM]
G12 I’ve seen in Spain. What about C3 from Australia?
Peter A Vandever [08/28/2015 10:23 AM]
C3?
Andy Elmore [08/28/2015 11:13 AM]
There was very little here that said what the churches are doing wrong as far as teaching goes.
Peter A Vandever [08/28/2015 11:16 AM]
Are you familar with the g12 heresy?
Andy Elmore [08/28/2015 11:16 AM]
no
Andy Elmore [08/28/2015 11:17 AM]
I read the article hoping to find insight. it provided very little other than requiring people to join cell groups
Peter A Vandever [08/28/2015 11:20 AM]
They believe that you must be a cell group to be saved.
Peter A Vandever [08/28/2015 11:20 AM]
and complete and blind loyalty to pastors.
John Kissinger [08/28/2015 11:21 AM]
C3 church Australia is as big as Hillsong
Peter A Vandever [08/28/2015 11:23 AM]
What is it core values?
John Kissinger [08/28/2015 11:55 AM]
I dont think the whole cell group/home church is Biblical at all. Cell groups work only in Korean (Asian) ministry context. In most other ethnic mentalities cell groups always lead to a church split. Every other 2 yrs to be exact
Ermar Reyes Luna [08/29/2015 7:33 AM]
here is a valid evaluation from COMACOP on G12 movement : http://www.psquare.org/press/christian-and-missionary-alliance-churches-of-the-philippines-committee-on-doctrine-and-polity-codap-on-the-g12-movement/
Peter A Vandever [08/30/2015 3:13 PM]
What makes it valid?
Peter A Vandever [08/30/2015 3:18 PM]
the cell group is not the issue for me, it is the controlling spirit that bothers me.
John Kissinger [08/30/2015 10:40 PM]
the controlling spirit starts from the cell group paradigm and therefore is observed not to work (even malfunction) in cultures with emancipated liberation mentality (post-communist for example)
Charles Page [08/30/2015 11:01 PM]
lol intellzual speak of the liberal element of the COG
John Ruffle [02/21/2016 1:11 AM]
G12 is a corruption of a vital aspect of church life. Avoid it. All I see here is a logo btw.
Peter A Vandever [02/21/2016 2:51 AM]
It is a cult!
John Ruffle [02/21/2016 2:58 AM]
Bang on target there. No question it’s a cult. Sad.
Jon Ray
NAR or cult? What are they? César Castellanos is a pastor in Columbia. He claims to have a vision from the Spirit of God. He did not. What he did was visit Souel, South Korea and saw the Yoido Full Gospel Church and their emphasis on cell ministry. It took that and added a new level of heresy on top of it and that become the G12 churches we know today.
How it came to the Philippines is not completely clear but what I know, I will tell you. A pastor from Arizona, Rich Witmer went to Columbia and came back and made Generations Church in Yuma, Arizona into several g12 churches. At some point, he traveled to the Philippines and did conferences on church growth and in one of them met Leo Carlo Panlilio, pastor of Destiny Church in Quezon City. Panlilio openly brianwashes people and is very proud of the fact. To be honest, my introduction to g12 churches only came because word are flying around that Leo Carlo Panlilio had publically attacked me from the pulpit over my position on revival and freedom from abusive leadership. December 2009 it reached its height. Panlilio and a few other pastor had rallied together against me and the renewal meetings because I refused to include brianwashing into the mix. I do know at one point there was a meeting to try and destroy me, my meetings and my ministry. At the head of the meetings was Leo Carlo Panlilio and Chito Sanchez. It seems that Chito’s issue was something personal and that I did not believe that revival is about pastors but the Holy Spirit. Terry Wiles Any influence in the area you oversee in S. America?
John Ruffle
Thank you for sharing!
Terry Wiles
Your reporting is accurate. It is the core thought of the apostles.
G12 is the foundation. My observation is that the foundation isn’t bad but the way it is being used is bad.
I know some who are using it without the corruptive shepherding authority.
Castellanos himself have been known to preach powerfully on the subject of the cross. But his followers, like the followers of Hagan, take it to heresy and cultish control that make them worse than the Pharisees.
According to where you are the influence if greater it less. But it is fully on television in every place.
Charles Page
isn’t Bryan Cutshall a prototype for this ministry? There seems to be some similarities.
Jon Ray
The G12 Movement draws its name from the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ; But ignoring scriptural warrants for church leadership patterns,Castellanos claims the time has come to end all other ecclesiastical modalities, whether Presbyterian, congregational, Episcopalian or Diocesan, in favor of this leadership of the 12, with him as its Super-Apostle.
Terry Wiles
Yes. That is the thinking. And they are not nice to those of us who think otherwise.
John Ruffle
Hey Biblios! You woke me up with a jolt sans coffee … you been preaching in the Philippines? You never told me! Thank you for exposing those grievous wolves peddling G12. Tell me more what you’ve been doing there and where exactly.
Jon Ray
🙂 Well it came up with the NAR conversation we’ve been having with Terry on South America. It is where it originated pretty much
Varnel Watson
What are they? Are they good bad or ugly ? Ify Divine Nsoha Dan Irving
Ify Divine Nsoha
g12 believe they are the only ones doing what the church should be doing, discipleship wise
Varnel Watson
Ify Divine Nsoha I;ve seen them in Spain in the 80s or maybe 90s passing trough I think they come from Latin America and are very much social gospel theology with small group orientation – what is your observation /
Link Hudson
I have read very little about them online. I have not encountered the movement here as far as Iknow.
Varnel Watson
There is little online to read Almost like a new movement which they are not I’ve seen them in action in Spain I believe it was They come from no where with great organisation and discipleship outreach but little is revealed to the outside world next
Gerardo de Dominicis
G12 is demonic. Why do I say this? 1.- The Lord showed it to me in 2000; 2.- It comes from the Catholic Church, the Opus Dei I think, using mysticism and Jesuit practices. 3.- we’ve seen the fruit it produces: dividing and destroying churches. Stay away from it.
Varnel Watson
Gerardo we’ve known they are NAR social gospel related Dan Irving but why do you say demonic because of the Catholic connection?
Gerardo de Dominicis
They have this “encounters” that are two or three enclosures that are secretive, the ones that participate can’t tell novices what’s going on in there. This is based on the Jesuit spiritual exercises, that where mystic experiences promoted by Ignatius of Loyola. My former church in Mexico was destroyed by G12 and other churches in here got divided too. I know first hand testimonies of Christians suffering serious spiritual damage because of their involvement in the G12. Look on the internet for Cesar Castellanos, he is the Colombian pastor who started this G12 thing and you’ll find his connections with catholic mysticism.
Varnel Watson
Ify too said something like that but we dont know why
Gerardo de Dominicis
I never participated in this because the Lord showed me to not get involved and later I found out the reasons. I believe G12 is a heresy implemented to destroy the local churches.
Gerardo de Dominicis
Almost all the information about the G12 is in Spanish but i found this in English: https://azusareport.com/cesar-castellanos-g-12-control/
Link Hudson
Whose blog is this? It is written in the first person, but when I went to ‘our story’, he does not say who he is. One article treats the Toronto Blessing and Lakeland as standards for revival, but other articles make the author seem like he might be A/G. Saying the purpose of the church is to walk in signs and wonders seems off to me. Not that the church shouldn’t, but the __purpose__ of the church? How about preparing a bride for God’s Son? How about teaching principalities and powers?
I wonder if the author is Peter Vandever, with the discussion of the Philippines, the US, the A/G and some of the groups he likes.
I don’t know if controling movements have ‘a spirit of control’ or not. I don’t recall reading about that one in the Bible. I suspect a lot of spirits could try to work in a controlling movement. Charismatic terms like ‘spirit of religion’ and ‘spirit of control’ irk me a bit. Sometimes, I want to know if the person who uses such an accusation has an actual revelation of a specific spirit involved, or if they just accuse someone who has a negative characteristic of having a demon. Can’t people do bad stuff on their own without a demon having to be specifically behind everything? If there is no revelation, there should be no speculation, IMO, when it comes to things like this.
I am digressing a bit from the article, but you can hurt someone’s reputation with ‘spectral evidence’ in the Charismatic movement. Even if they haven’t done anything specifically wrong, someone can claim that the spirit behind them is a demon. Jesus opponents did something similar, though, and they were wrong, and He warned them about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Back to the article, I would rather see some real specifics about what they are doing that is controlling. Does a leader of a twelve-man group start telling people what college to send their kids to and who they should marry? Do they listen to confessions of sins and then the individual feels threatened later, if they want to leave, that the leader will tell everyone their sins? Do they have ‘breaking sessions’ where they throw vague accusations about your character with no specifics (e.g. ‘you are prideful’ without explaining why)? I have heard of these sorts of things in other heavy handed discipler methodologies.
When pastors or group leaders start taking over decisions entrusted to other people, I get concerned. For example, if they tell all the believers they can’t pray for one another, whent he Bible tells us to do so, IMO, in general, that is overstepping their bounds. When they start controlling individuals and who they marry–beyond giving biblical teaching and counsel on the matter–, they overstep the bounds of parents and the individuals involved.
Show us the specifics if you are going to speak out against something. Don’t just accuse them of having a spirit.
Varnel Watson
This is a fake news site Link Hudson you are asking great questions What are you basing them on? I have not much info on this organization either
Link Hudson
Troy Day I looked at a few pages. The author’s home church is in Missouri. He talks about Bible College, a background in the A/G, is a fan of Brownsville, got saved through Steve Hill’s preaching, likes the Toronto Blessing and Lakeland, and comments a lot on the Philippines. It sounds like Peter Vandever’s background if I remember right. I would not call it ‘fake news.’ I might call it one man’s perspective. Is there anything you can point to that is factually inaccurate, that you can verify?
Varnel Watson
Link you’ve been long enough to know the author is our old friend Peter. Just see the opening words: I have wrote before – and you knows it. There is much more to G12
Gerardo de Dominicis
I don’t know the site, just showed what he says about it. In Spanish web pages there’s a lot of info about the G12. I saw what it did in local churches in my city and how it damaged Christians. I can say that those who have participated in the encounters become very judgmental of those who haven’t, they behave as being “enlightened” with a superior knowledge (experience), they insist that the “encounters” are necessary if you want to be part of the global “vision”; instead of going directly to the pastor you have to go to your “12 leader” and he will reference you to the main leader (aka pastor) only if needed. It’s like building a pyramid or a corporation with departments and sub departments, the brotherhood disappears.
Link Hudson
Troy Day I would say I am pretty sure it is him but I cannot prove it conclusively. But I could see how he could get in a conversation with a pastor who would threaten to kick his ….. after watching some of the arguments he made on YouTube and his story about defeating the old guy who punched him when he was preaching against old men marrying young women in the Philippines. He said it was prostitution.
On the other hand, some hierarchical small discipleship groups.have gone tge weird controlling route in the past. A whole movement could be that way or a branch of it could develop a toxic culture in one country city etc.
If apreacher went to Cho’s church and did something similar, that does not mean God did not talk to him.
I heard Wesley used 12 man groups. Of course, Jesus had 12 disciples.
Varnel Watson
Gerardo how did G12 split your home church ?
Gerardo de Dominicis
Half of the people rejected to follow the G12 program and were kicked out by the pastor (my parents were one of them when they tried to give the pastor a document written by columbian christians denouncing the G12) but before that there was a lot of tension about this new thing among the members. My self was classified as “rebellious” because I never wanted to attend an encounter so I left. We used to be a 400 people church and currently there aren’t more than 100 (interesting those in the G12 later left the church too and started attending other churches).
Terry Wiles
G12 is the Latin American version of the old “shepherding” movement that destroyed multitudes. I has been around for many years. Some work well but the majority are platforms for abuse on the order of any Pyramid type operation.
It results in giving absolutes power over others to those who abuse others with power.
Varnel Watson
Do you mean “shepherding” like Prince and prophetic 5 and the whole Vineyard community church movement thing?
Link Hudson
The VIneyard wasn’t into that when I was involved in it. Is this the same thing as Wimber’s group? That didn’t seem to be into heavy shepherding in the early ’90’s, or too friendly to the idea, though they did use the term ‘covering’ every once in a while. I heard Basham’s group used ‘community church’. I went to a Wednesday night meeting with a pastor who used that in the church name who had been in that movement, but wasn’t into the heavy shepherding stuff?
Terry Wiles
Yes. Very similar with the control aspect.
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles do you mean the 10% control type? Link Hudson I never knew you were Vineyard too 🙂 Pentecostal?
Link Hudson
I went to a Vineyard church plant on Sunday night at some friends’ house for maybe a year while going to a CH church for other services. Il was about 22.
Varnel Watson
Never knew that 🙂 The plot unfolds
Mich
Sorry everyone but your thought and perception about a g12 churches is not probably true. Before we conclude something try to look it deeper and try it better not just like this. The aim of this g12 church is a vision for the people will know God deeper and to build a strong relationship with our God. It is a Christ-centered church. It’s not all about the church but it is all about God. Because at the end, religion couldn’t saved us but our relationship to the Almighty God…God bless you all
James
It’s starting to divide our local church as well. I’ve been doing a lot of research on G12 not to destroy it’s credibility but to understand it’s foundation in relation to the Pentecostal beliefs. From what I gathered, the system pretty much replicates that of a franchising business. A McDonald franchise anywhere in the world will have the same color, ambiance, products (95-99%),systems, & terminologies. A franchisee is not allowed to tweak or change any of its products nor “standards”. In the case of G12, doctrinal discussion is a taboo. No one is allowed to question the leaders (reminds me of papal infallibility).
My research continues as I have friends wanting to join the G12 group.