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Pentecostal Theology | PentecostalTheology.com
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.
Shandon L. Guthrie writes on 1 Corinthians 3:16 “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?”
Traditionalists use this passage to counter argue that demons cannot inhabit the same area(s) as God (see 2 Corinthians 6:14-16 where Paul tells the Corinthians that God does not have fellowship with wickedness and darkness). Since God is present in the believer and the demonic and the divine “can never exist in the same place . . . [and] cannot exist in the same heart,”[32] then the demonization of Christians is impossible. These counterarguments used against deliverance proponents seem to center around this anthropomorphic idea that God’s Spirit literally permeates the physical body. It’s as if every Christian has God living ubiquitously inside them much like blood. But God is neither a physical mass nor a spatial being. His presence in every believer is best understood in the traditional way: that God is immediately present and experienced within every believer. It no more signifies the literal spatial inhabiting of a physical presence than the references to the kingdom of God dwelling inside us (cf. Luke 17:21). The primal significance is that God’s Spirit has a unique relationship with each Christian believer.
Traditionalists typically assert that because God literally and physically permeates the physical bodies of Christians, then there is essentially no room for a demonic presence. I think this is naïve. Now, I’m not insinuating that there is permission for demonic cohabitation. What I am suggesting is that this passage may not be the evidence the traditionalist can appropriate. Put simply: the conclusion does not follow from the premises.
The significance of being God’s temple is that God “indwells” and subsequently “fills” believers in the sense that He communes with each of us and grants us direct spiritual awakening, encouragement, and power.[33] Clearly the usages of “dwelling” and “filling” are meant to signify a metaphor with a literal truth at heart.
So, the problem must be addressed in terms of the following question, Can a demon conceivably exist in the proximity of God? I think we have some precedent for thinking so. In the book of Job, we are told quite vividly of Satan “[coming] before the LORD” when he accompanies the angels (1:6). The first dialogue that ensues concerns one of the greatest tests of faith a man of God could possibly receive (the conversation continues in Chapter 2). And then we are told that he “went out from the presence of the LORD” (v. 12). If God’s presence were of a literal attendance or inhabitance of every literal square inch of heaven, then I find it quite difficult to imagine how Satan could inhabit the literal presence of God. However, if God’s presence is His propinquity or proximity, as traditionally understood, then the self-contradiction does not occur.
Regarding the analogy to our bodies being the “temple” of the Spirit, even the physical temples of Jewish antiquity from which 1 Cor. 3:16 is the antitype could also be in the “presence” of a non-elect. Since the Ark of the Covenant was said to house the “presence” of God, then it should have been impossible for the non-believing Philistines to steal the ark and place it into Dagon’s temple (not to mention that it raises another problem with anthropomorphism: How does one actually steal the presence of God?).[34] The solution must be that the “presence” of God in the temple (whether the temple refers to a physical structure or the Christian body) is a reflection of God’s proximity, not His inhabitance.[35]
Now, if being demonized entails having a demon take ownership over the Christian believer, then this passage and others like it would be relevant and would preclude the idea that Christians can be demonized. However, the slight-of-hand revisionist wants daimonizomai to mean merely “to have a demon.” And neither 1 Corinthians 3 nor 2 Corinthians 6 will settle the demonization of Christians purely on that assumption.
Therefore, I find that the traditionalist who utilizes 1 Corinthians 3:16 to establish that demons cannot be in the presence of God are relying upon an unfortunate anthropomorphizing of God’s indwelling of believers. If the traditionalist first accomplishes a univocal definition of daimonizomai that entails the actual possession of a person by a demon, then 1 Corinthians 3:16 poses some relevance.
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 4:19 PM]
Charles Page Bill Coble Alan N Carla Smith Chad S. Fickett Steve Webb what do you think about this very controversial issue ?
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:21 PM]
no
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:24 PM]
not since 70 AD! Christ brought a finality to the demonic hindrances.
Alan N Carla Smith [02/25/2015 4:25 PM]
Matt 6:24
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 4:25 PM]
Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them – OT hey scholars, were they all in the presence of the Lord? Rick Wadholm Jr
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:28 PM]
What accord has Christ with demons? The born again is a regenerated child of God and demons have no place in the regenerated born again child of God.
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 4:28 PM]
Matthew 4:3 And the tempter (Satan) came and said to Him (Jesus)
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:32 PM]
A messenger of Satan was sent to buffet Paul. Paul dwelt with the hinder-er! Paul said the hinder-er would be taken out of the way.
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 4:32 PM]
Traditionalists use this passage to counter argue that demons cannot inhabit the same area(s) as God. I think we have some precedent for thinking so. In the book of Job, we are told quite vividly of Satan “[coming] before the LORD” when he accompanies the angels (1:6)
Alan N Carla Smith [02/25/2015 4:34 PM]
Are we talking about abiding within the same human body (temple)? or just the same area… more vaguely speaking??
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:34 PM]
traditions, traditions, traditions!!!
Alan N Carla Smith [02/25/2015 4:37 PM]
are you advocating along with the “Can a Christian really have a demon?” post..??
Steve Webb [02/25/2015 4:40 PM]
Demons cannot possess a blood bought believer. They can oppress, hinder, trouble, or otherwise bother. It is biblically impossible for one to both be possessed by Christ and an agent of the devil at the same time.
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:41 PM]
if the devil and his angels are cast into the bottomless pit who is left to oppress, hinder and trouble?
Alan N Carla Smith [02/25/2015 4:42 PM]
I agree with Steve Webb.
May I ask can a demon work through a blood-bought believer??
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:43 PM]
Demons cannot possess a regenerated born again believer however they can be oppressed, hindered and troubled.
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:45 PM]
No, a demon can’t work through a blood bought believer however a BBB can oppose and hinder himself by unfaithfulness and disobedience.
Charles Page [02/25/2015 4:48 PM]
A BBB can be greatly hindered and opposed by another BBB who thinks that he is possessed by a demon/demons. I have seen tooooooo much evidence of this garbage to know the end result of demon deliverance ministries! Their fadish ministries are growing abundantly!
Byron Benefield [02/25/2015 5:10 PM]
Most Christians do not understand the tripartite nature of their own being. The Holy Spirit dwells in the believer within the human spirit [conscience, intuition, fellowship (communication with God)], working outward (sanctification) toward the soul (mind, will, and emotions) of the believer, bringing the flesh into subjection. This is a process to “take the land” overcoming the powers of darkness that dwell there little by little. (They are NOT just sitting on your shoulders) A demon possessed person is possessed in the spirit (hardened conscience, dulled intuition, communication/connection with evil spirits) and controls the soul (mind, will, and emotions) and the flesh. The spirit, soul, and body houses the evil spirits. A born – again believer can have “strongholds” of demons within their soul (mind, will, and emotions) and flesh. They work inwardly from the flesh towards the spirit to possess the “land” of the heart. God works from the inside toward the outside. Satan works from the outside toward the inside. A born again Christian can’t be possessed but can surely and most likely have demon problems within their flesh causing sickness and/or sinful habits, bad attitudes or unchristlike characteristics. Repentance paves the way for deliverance.
Charles Page [02/25/2015 5:24 PM]
most Christian’s view of man is Greek gnostic viewing man as a vessel containing invisible spiritual elements. Hebrew views are holistic viewing the nature of man as being a living soul (trichotimous)
Christian exorcist see man in a Greek gnostic view and a demon can be spit out as from a vessel. Usually a box of Kleenexes accompanies a deliverance ministry!
Ron Hamm [02/25/2015 5:25 PM]
Nice Byron
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 5:30 PM]
Charles Page When you say ” BBB can oppose and hinder himself by unfaithfulness and disobedience” do you mean they can backslide? Not very reformed of you 🙂
Charles Page [02/25/2015 5:32 PM]
Years ago in a Tennessee camp-meeting I heard TL Lowery frighten a whole tabernacle full of people frightening them to cry out in fear of the cast-out demon wandering around seeking someone to possess. You would have thought by the emotion there was a revival taking place (if revivals can be measured by frantic screaming)
All this was preceded by the profits words: “folks, I have seen this many times in my ministry”. It was the words of a huckster!
Charles Page [02/25/2015 5:33 PM]
Steve Webb [02/25/2015 5:34 PM]
Charles Page Demonic forces are not bound and chained until the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, and then after that, at the final battle, they are cast, along with hell, into the lake of fire for a permanent home. Any theology or ideology must be put into proper biblical context. The idea that some mysterious event happened in 70 AD that seen demons and/or satan bound and no longer a force is a grievous error that should not be passed along.
Pentecostal Theology [02/25/2015 5:34 PM]
Alan N Carla Smith There are Christians living in holiness, and then there are Christians living like the devil. They may not be technically possessed but sure go alongside the demonic…
Terry Wiles
Absolutely not. Those who claim so discount the evil in a non-sanctified human spirit (nature).
Louise Cummings
I say No an unclean spirit Cabot live where God lives.
Louise Cummings
Suppose to be saying cannot live where Jesus lives.
Robert Borders
Yes. My 40 years of study and practical experience in delivered ministry lead me to believe that Christians do often carry demons with them.
Brian Crisp
A demon cannot inhabit where the Holy Spirit inhabits.
Charlie Robin
and if the believer backslides?
Stacy-Jeff Justice
If a believer backslides he is not a believer anymore……in my opinion
Charlie Robin
🙁 does he/she lose the Holy Ghost?
David Lewayne Porter
Is the Holy Spirit be given to a sinner?
No,
Then can the Holy Spirit be retained by a sinner?
No,
Isn’t a backslidder a sinner?
Yes.
John 7:37-39
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Believe on me (Christians)
As the scriptures hath said – (adhering to His words),
Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water – Jesus spake this concerning the Spirit – Holy Ghost was not yet given.
So at Jesus’ words.
Believers are those who receive the Holy Spirit.
Will God let someone keep something He gave to His children after they fulfilled the requirements, once they cease to continue in the same requirements?
Stacy-Jeff Justice
Nope where there is light there can not be darkness
Charlie Robin
and if the believer backslides and there’s no light?
David Lewayne Porter
Trick question……
You asking as far as in their soul/spirit,
or
in their body as far as diseases and infirmities?
There is a distinct difference.
Stacy-Jeff Justice
But sickness would be oppression not possesion (or abiding within)
David Lewayne Porter
No,
sickness is not oppression.
Oppression is from the outside.
Spirits of infirmities in the Bible were cast out.
Study (taken with) in it’s original meaning……
Luke 4:38-39
And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon’s house. And Simon’s wife’s mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
(Taken with, and Jesus was known to REBUKE what)?
Acts 8:7
For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Matthew 4:24
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
(The whole grouping-s of categories are all covered by healed….. “possessions” as well as “those taken with divers diseases and torments”.
And I could continue.
Charlie Robin
Lots of delivery teachers make such distinctive between the demon being in the human spirit and the human body – unfortunately, the Bible does not make such difference anywhere where talking about demon possession and deliverance
David Lewayne Porter
And yet, there it is.
Testimonies of physically sick Christian delivered persons bear it out.
Add to that disciples of the past with understanding in this matter understood and communicated,
Well (Allow me to relay the sentiment of one).
“”If you treat cancer as anything but an invading demonic spirit, you lose”.
Charlie Robin
Well we have lots of testimonies that have nothing to do with the Bible. Nothing new there
David Lewayne Porter
And yet we have plenty of testimonies that do have to do with the Bible (not contridicting it).
Maybe you did not observe
1) John 16:12-15
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
2) John 21:24-25
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The Bible is not the end of the Spirit filled believers knowledge.
It is our foundation that we hold to and judge everything else by.
BUT we are always growing in our knowledge of Good and His waits of working.
Ephesians 3:20
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
And we can understand it all on our own – the preceeding 3 verses
Ephesians 3:16-19
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Robert Borders
I learned long ago to never refer people who needed deliverance or spiritual healing to traditional Pentecostal pastors.
Stacy-Jeff Justice
Why?
Charlie Robin
David Lewayne Porter I dont follow – how can you separate the body from the soul and do separate theology on each of them?
David Lewayne Porter
Man is a spirit, that possesses a soul, that lives in a body.
Man is a triune being made after the image of the God-Head.
In order for me to answer you you most first realize and admit that.
Do you?
If not you need to go reference the words
Spirit – as it refers to man
Soul
Body
Then I can answer you.
(I believe as you do the study of the words, you will have your answer).
Here is the thought to ponder as you research
James 5:14-16
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
(Sick among you – the church, believers)
Save the sick, raised up
If sins committed they are forgiven.
Faults, prayers, healing…
Are Christians that are sick sinners?
Are sinners that are healed automatically saved?
(The same word in the Greek for salvation (spiritual) – does indeed reference and include healing (physical). The issue is when and are they the same and automatic?
If we do not understand and separate the two we must ask,
Are sick Christians only sinners playing the part of Salvation?
Also
3 John 2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
John apparently understood the difference in the two (bodily health and soul prosperity).
He did not even address his spiritual renewal which by John’s address in the letter and first verse of this chapter John accepted as a fellow believer.
I will wait for you conclusions after your research.
Blessings.
Charlie Robin
The tri-uni man hypothesis is only one theory. There is also the just 2 – material and non- material part of man. The Bible uses spirit, soul and hear interchangeably – so if we even begin talking about demons being only in the physical part of man (purely theoretically) first thing need addressing will be spirit of hear attack being in the heart or the soul or the spirit – and there goes that theory down the drain. And BTW sickness is not always caused by a demon. It actually very rarely is according to the Bible. We dont see Jesus casting out a spirit of fever from Peter’s mother in law or spirit of death from Lazarus…
David Lewayne Porter
The issue with your response is the soul and Spirit is not the same thing and not interchangeable.
Ecclesiastes says the spirit returns to God from where it came.
Yet/And Jesus said
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So the spirit is returning to God and the soul will be cast into hell.
In case you believe I am confused
I think the commission to the Thessalonians covers the three parts of man’s being;
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
English comparison,
If the Soul and Spirit are the same in this verse then the Soul and Spirit are the same as the Body.
Since the Body is differing from the Soul and Spirit then by the rules of grammar the Soul is also differing from Spirit.
Man is indeed a triune being made in the image of his God.
Charlie Robin
David Lewayne Porter I personally believe in a trinitarian creation of man, but this still does not solve the problem with demons in body or soul. I think the question about backsliden souls still stands
David Lewayne Porter
You are not getting what I am saying here.
We apparently have a communication breakdown.
(Good thing is that it is not a salvation issue so we can go with your “theory” suggestion).
It must simply be our differing backgrounds and what we have been allowed to do by God through His Spirit for others.
Charlie Robin
Well at least I am trying really hard to get it 🙂
David Lewayne Porter
And for that I am glad.
Blessings
Varnel Watson
David I dont think it can be biblically proven that spirits enter only the flesh. Except if Christ died only for the flesh on Calvary…
David Lewayne Porter
Troy Day
I you can’t prove they dont.
There is no other way to explain Christian “believers” having spirits cast out – unless you truly believe God allows the devil to make a mockery of Jesus’ work on Calvary.
Here is a question to ponder.
Why are so many believers having surgeries to remove diseased body parts instead of accepting healing according to scriptures?
Here’s an answer,
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
2 Timothy 3:7
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
I guess there is where the gifts of
Knowledge
Wisdom
Discerning of spirits
and
Healing come into action.
Varnel Watson
So again healing and sickness is due to sin but not always do demons – I think this is pretty clear in the Bible
David Lewayne Porter
You missed the forest for the trees,
Varnel Watson
Well my explanation is that they have backsliden. The Bible does say that the spirits like to return to the clean house and that the ones who backslide are like dogs returning to their vomit. The separation of spirits entering the flesh but not the spirit of man is very remote from the Biblical truth and is actually border-line Gnosticism i.s. sin is in the body but not in the spirit and so on Furthermore as far as the OP is concern the question is not even entering entering the spirit but the body as God’s temple and again the question HOW can an evil spirit and the Holy Spirit abide in the same human body at the same time which is also the Temple of God?
David Lewayne Porter
Sin is in the body,,,
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
Good luck,
I want to hear this one.
Robert Borders
I have personally met dozens of Pentecostal pastors who were or are pedophiles and far more who were adulterous or sexual addicts. I also have met dozens of Pentecostal Christians who are gay and speak in tongues. Broken people still love the Lord and want healing and deliverance. Yes Christians can have demons and I have dozens of books that detail this. My background in Clinical Psychology and work in this field put me regular contact with hurting people who want prayer. This post reveals why I am reluctant to refer people to traditional Pentecostal pastors for spiritual help.
David Lewayne Porter
You need to check your theology brother.
Satan can and does give false tongues.
To be a Christian is to be Christ like.
So by your post you believe all those you mentioned are Christ-like.
Christians can be influenced and oppressed to which they act on it of their own free will.
But to have a devil and be possessed they are overcome and controlled by that spirit.
I think James covered that in his biblical book.
Varnel Watson
David Lewayne Porter Yes there are lots of people who SAY they are saved but are far from it Sanctification is needed Charles Page http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/september/21.49.html
Robert Borders
I don’t believe that I mentioned that all these were Christ like but many were or are preachers. We minister to people in their present life situations and don’t spend time in theological arguments.
David Lewayne Porter
Preachers, in such situtations.
1 Corinthians 9:23-27
And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
And
Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Praise God for the two saved at our church this past Wednesday evening (my wife and I have worked with them for 5 years now.
It finally paid off).
They acted as Christians, sat on church chairs, yet at their own admission were not Christians.
Praise God they are now.
Varnel Watson
Whatever. Avoiding the real question here
David Lewayne Porter
And what is your real question Troy?
Can Christians be inhabited by demons? Soulfully effecting their behaviors and eternal destination
–
no.
Varnel Watson
Let’s elaborate on this a bit theologically. The danger of demons in the flesh is called namely demonic incarnation. Does anyone even believe that?
David Lewayne Porter
Not when there is a person in that body first.
Varnel Watson
Has anyone seen a body where there’s not person in it? #deadmanvoting #thevotingdead The theology that Robert Borders is presenting has been checked time and time again. If there’s any flow is where people say one thing and live another. Clinical psychology, hospital chaplaincy and Christian counseling has helped us spot many such cases. And yes some are very very demonic but not all sin did “the devil made me do it” For the bright learners I recommend the studies of a frequent speaker @ central church Dr. George Voorhis who has books on the subject too http://ccog.libsyn.com/webpage/category/Dr.%20George%20Voorhis
David Lewayne Porter
My point Troy is that your demonic incarnation is the result of too many Hollywood movies.
Varnel Watson
Well do explain how demonic incarnation occurs then. My knowlidge on such seems quite limited. I’m trying to think of a Bible passage where it says and the demon left his/her body but I can only think of ones where the demon left him/her the whole person not just the body
David Lewayne Porter
No, it does not say his/her body.
You need to Re-read that verse first.
Varnel Watson
Exactly my point. So your body-possession only theory goes down the drain again for the third time
David Lewayne Porter
See post below (***)
Charles Page
all beliefs about demon possession after 70 AD are mere theories!
Varnel Watson
If resurrected ain 70AD you are not eligible to vote Ricky Grimsley #votingdead #deadmanvoting
Ricky Grimsley
I cant decide which is more impossible….that demons are not possessing people or that jesus came back in 70 ad.
Charlie Robin
Does Your Soul Have a Backbone? http://www.sermoncentral.com/pastors-preaching-articles/lance-witt-does-your-soul-have-a-backbone-2650.asp
David Lavoie
Man’s spirit regenerate is pure. Its the soul coming out of agreement with darkness and fleshly dominance that needs Ministry.
The body does too.
🙂
Robert Borders
The little book about the Life of Saint Anthony of Egypt by Athanasius is one of the best guides to spiritual warfare and can be purchased on Kindle for 99 cents.
David Lewayne Porter
Troy Day
(***)
Then explain the deaf and dumb spirit (spirits affecting the body. Not soul or spirit)
And what did Jesus do to it?
What was it?
Mark 9:25-26
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
You are welcome.
David Lewayne Porter
Luke 13:11-13
And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
Varnel Watson
Now you are sounding like TD Jakes. Does the verse say the spirit was in her body alone? I dont see that being differentiate it in the text in any way possible. Please explain how you see that being the case…
David Lewayne Porter
Tell me where it effected her spirit?
Tell me where the verse mentions anything being effected by “the spirit of infirmity” other than her body.
If you want it spelled out point blank in the verse, I am closer than your interpretation to the actual printed text.
Varnel Watson
Very straight forward in the text “had a spirit of infirmity” Who had it? Her body or the woman who had a body – you yourself said we are spirits in a body 🙂 So who had the spirit of infirmity in this verse? A little science may help you long ways https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/why-we-worry/201412/spirit-possession-and-mental-health
Charles Page
Remember, this was prior to 70 AD
Varnel Watson
David Lewayne Porter Please tell me if I am understanding what you are saying here per OP – you can have a fully sanctified, Holy Ghost filled Christian who attends and contributes to the church regularly but they still may have a demon in their body? Does this sums your position and do you have Bible to back it up
David Lewayne Porter
Brother,
Have you read my replies to your post?
You have your answer,
It just goes against the answer you want.
Question for you brother
Why did Jesus simply heal some, why did Jesus heal some with the spirit of infirmity,
And why
(Wait for it)
Did Jesus heal some and forgive their sins?
I can give you the scriptures for each of these but I believe if you seek you find.
I will leave it to you to do a topical search for these three situations throughout the Scriptures.
There are reasons some had to have spirits (healed), some had spirits cast out, some were very simply healed, and some were healed as sins were forgiven.
You are very close to your answer if you indeed go seek as to desire finding.
Varnel Watson
Yes of course but they make no sense except you explain what exactly do you believe in regard of demon possession in this topic with few plain words without taking random scriptures
David Lewayne Porter
Brother Troy Day,
Where did you get your knowledge of demonology?
To answer your question
I believe demonic possesion is spiritual.
I believe it can and does effect and manifests in a person’s spirit, soul, and body. (Sometimes in each of these at the same time, sometimes in each of these at different times).
I believe demons can inhabit a person’s body in addition to the spirit, or separately from it.
As far as random scriptures, (rightly dividing The Word is taking all scriptures on a topic and examining them together side by side inorder to get a total and complete picture).
They are not as random as you believe.
– example – in order to get God’s thought on divorce you have to read and study all of the scriptures relating to divorce not just one or two, not just the OldTestament, not just the New Testament.
So
Brother,
Why did Jesus simply heal some, Why did Jesus heal some with the spirit of infirmity,
And why
Did Jesus heal some and forgive their sins?
I will leave it to you to do a topical search for these three situations throughout the Scriptures.
There are reasons some had to have spirits (healed), some had spirits cast out, some were very simply healed, and some were healed as sins were forgiven?
I am still very interested on where you got your theology of and studied demonology.
(I am serious. I am not just trying to win a debate. I am not just trying to avoid it).
That is as straight forward as I can be short of going into people’s testimonies that used to be demon possessed and are now christians and those divinely healed from chronic diseases.
I don’t expect you to understand it (yet).
It does not appear that you have had very many personal hands-on dealings with the differing aspects of this topic.
Robert Borders
I would strongly recommend a study of the works and writings of Father Gabriel Amorth, the primary trainer of exorcists in Rome. He died just recently but did train hundreds of full time exorcists and has several books that have been translated into English that provide solid teaching in this area. I have found very few pastors in the COG or AOG that have had much training or experience with setting the captives free and would love to see more people performing the works of Jesus in the world.
David Lewayne Porter
Robert Borders
Thank you.
But I have one issue.
A father, from a religion that misses it on other major spiritual points.
Rome Italy, mother church Roman Catholic.
I’ll have to examine his teachings AFTER I check his beliefs.
Charlie Robin
https://blog.logos.com/2015/10/where-do-demons-come-from/
Brian Crisp
Good read
Charles Page
They are manufactured in Siberian work camps and distributed to America.
David Lewayne Porter
I like the last verse most “the take away from all of this”.
Anonymous
demon OR soul Isara Mo William DeArteaga